Looking for some wisdom

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

I have an idea that I need input on. Sawyer Mountain in N.Limington Maine is a series of public discontinued roads and conservation type lands including private land trusts. http://www.fsht.org/ http://www.state.me.us/spo/lmf/projects/project_detail.php?project=1615

This area is fun for stock vehicles and has huge potential for selective trail cutting............They are looking for donations to expand the protected area.

My thought was to contact them and see if some sort of partnership could be worked out with them to police/monitor the area in exchange for a few new trails. Possibly even get the "Land purchasing NEOW group" to buy land to roll into the program in exchange for a trail network.

So how crazy am I? Should I just leave this alone and not jepordize what we have already? I figure if you guys think its a bad idea, then I won't bring it up on NEWJO (except for you guys already here).

Thanks for taking the time to help me!

Scott Brown

[Guest]

Thats a big undertaking that would take a lot of man hours IMO.
I wonder if you are dreaming to big? I am thinking contacting them about policing/mantaining and showing the tourism it could bring might be beneficial in keeping the road itself from being clossed.
I can't help but wonder if drawing to much attention to a fairly quite (rarelly used) trail would make Abbot round two.

[Nate Goodwin from NEWJO]

OOOpppss, that was me.

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

Thats a big undertaking that would take a lot of man hours IMO.
I wonder if you are dreaming to big? I am thinking contacting them about policing/mantaining and showing the tourism it could bring might be beneficial in keeping the road itself from being clossed.
I can't help but wonder if drawing to much attention to a fairly quite (rarelly used) trail would make Abbot round two.

And there you have my biggiest concern. If it is decided that it would be a worthwhile undertaking then I would contact them and start with just policing/monitoring it and if that relationship works out then pursue new trails.

My equal fear is that Abbott being close will cause a large influx of users on this trail. So maybe it is better to develop the relationship now to help prevent Abbott part 2. Just like Abbott Mtn Rd (not the face trail), the main trail is still part of Saywer Mtn Rd and open to the public so theoretically it would take some doing for them to close it.

[Nate Goodwin from NEWJO]

Without the addition of more trails I don't think the influx we had at Abbott the last 5yrs will happen on Sawyer. The difficulty is not their for the adrenalian junkys and it isn't long enough for people to travel far for. Most clubs ran Sawyer and Abbot on the same day. That will make lots of groups think twice about travelling their.

I am not saying not to pursue this. I am just adding some things to think about. I agree with contacting them and establishing a relationship befor things go awry.

[Scott Hatch]

I like your thoughts on this and agree that being proactive now instead of when the problems arise will prevent the same issues that Abbott had.

Whatever you would like to do you have the NEA's support, however remember that this is like poker and not to show your hand too soon. Start off with the offer to help maintain some areas with water bars and silt traps where you noticed some problem areas. Approach it as a concern recreationalist.

Scott

[KJP98TJ]

i agree with scott h. baby steps. i wouldn't even breath about new trails. this is a land trust which it's soul purpose was not to get homes built on it, ie "destroyed" , in some people's eyes, for lack of a better term.

[jacodi]

I also agree with Scott and KJP. While your heart is in the right place, they might not take well someone telling them how to do their job or asking for too much at once. On the other hand, if it is approached with the intention of a concerned recreationalist and resident who has man power to get things done that maybe they can't, you might get somewhere. I say approach them with the attitude explaining what you can do FOR and WITH them and explain your concerns re: mount abbott.

I say go slow and build the relationship slowly. Once you prove your intentions are good - which they are - they may want to work with us more.

Good luck and let me know if you need any help.

[preach]

I think it is a great idea, but like the small steps concept.

Could be that the 4x4 community would be better served without new trails there and using whatever services we could offer and were accepted just to keep the area in the shape it is in or better (with proper drainage on the roads etc).

Kind of a "What do you mean we destroy all we touch, look at this" deal.

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

Excellent responses. I am going to reflect on this some more before I do anything. Just to make sure I have considered everything.

[Treasurer]

Here is my thought on the matter. If you want to do more to the land than just ride the exisiting roads you need to be prepared to show that landowner other land we have permission to use and maintain the land.
You need to have a landowner open house.

[Guest]

Here is my thought on the matter. If you want to do more to the land than just ride the exisiting roads you need to be prepared to show that landowner other land we have permission to use and maintain the land.
You need to have a landowner open house.

I think that is a great idea, however a bit premature I suspect. I am leaning towards the advice given above about small steps.

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

Here is my thought on the matter. If you want to do more to the land than just ride the exisiting roads you need to be prepared to show that landowner other land we have permission to use and maintain the land.
You need to have a landowner open house.

I think that is a great idea, however a bit premature I suspect. I am leaning towards the advice given above about small steps.

That was me

[Treasurer]

When you get to the trail creation and maintenance then you offer the come check out other property we have permission to make trails and maintain them.

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

When you get to the trail creation and maintenance then you offer the come check out other property we have permission to make trails and maintain them.

At the risk of asking a completely stupid (noob) question, I assume we have some good examples of this? Do we have anything closely matching this?

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

Okay this is what I wrote, its a little wordy but it will have to do:

To Whom It May Concern,

I am the President of the North East Willy's Jeep Organization, Maine Chapter. We are a restoration and recreation club interested in exploring un-maintained public roads. As a member of Tread Lightly, we believe in leaving the land better than we find it.

My purpose in contacting your organization is to offer our help in preserving the Sawyer Mountain area. In years past we have performed clean ups while we have enjoyed traveling the Sawyer Mountain Rd. Again last week we enjoyed the views offered by Sawyer Mountain Rd while removing a bunch of paper products and bottles. To this end we offer our help in partnership with your organization to perform clean up and maintenance of the road and trail network so future families will be able to enjoy the scenic views offered by Sawyer Mountain. We are also able to provide access for disabled people otherwise unable to enjoy the area. Since most of members live within 45 minutes of Sawyer Mountain we are also able to provide emergency services such as search, rescue and removal if the need ever arose.

I welcome the opportunity to meet with you and your organization to talk about how my group can assist in keeping the Sawyer Mountain area clean and safe for all our families to enjoy. Please contact me day or night.

Sincerely,

Scott Brown,
President NEWJO-Maine
30 Brown Drive
Dayton, Maine 04005

Home: 207-499-2990
Mobile: 207-252-6156
Nextel: 207-252-0601
Email: newjomaine@adelphia.net

[jacodi]

When you get to the trail creation and maintenance then you offer the come check out other property we have permission to make trails and maintain them.

At the risk of asking a completely stupid (noob) question, I assume we have some good examples of this? Do we have anything closely matching this?

Look at what we just did in Bradford on Carter Hill Road. That is part of a class 6 road and also partially on private property. We have countless positive stories and examples of our (I think) good land mgmt practices on the properties we run and choosing the least impact for the land. I am also pretty sure Roger/Dupont/Bob Barry have made huge strides in a popular public trail in S. Ma or RI.

Cem Hill
Windy Acres (at least the upper half - we need to move the trail b/c of erosion)
etc...

I think your letter is good, but you might want to direct it to a specific person if you can find that out.

Awesome job, Scott.

[KJP98TJ]

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

And the response I finally got Guess I need to go to town hall.

---- Francis Small Heritage Trust - Dick Jarrett <Jarrett@FSHT.org> wrote:
> Hello Scott,
>
> Thank you for your emails. I have been away so I have not been able to
> respond. We really appreciate your concern for the mountain and the trails,
> and as you have undoubtedly noticed, the trails are suffering from severe
> erosion. Much of the erosion has been due to poor logging and road building
> activities during the last 25 years, as well as recent ATV usage. We are
> currently exploring methods to arrest the erosion and hope to have a formal
> soil erosion plan in place soon.
>
> The Francis Small Heritage Trust has purchased over 1000 acres for
> public use in the past several years. In order to purchase this land,
> hundreds of local donors and many different conservation foundations have
> granted money to the Trust for this purpose. Several different conservation
> foundations have placed restrictions on the funds given to the Trust.
> Although we have successfully left open the lands for hiking, hunting, and
> snowmobiling (on existing trails), one of the restrictions placed on us is
> that we cannot allow vehicles (other than snowmobiles) on the lands where
> funds from these organizations have been used.
>
> The Trust has not gated roads or otherwise restricted usage, but, due to
> these agreements, has never actually given permission for any vehicle (other
> than snowmobiles on existing trails) on these parcels. We also have taken
> active legal steps to protect the beaver population near the discontinued
> Sawyer Mountain Road and have stopped illegal road building activities on
> Trust property on the mountain.
>
> Unfortunately, due to the increasing usage from ATVs, the erosion
> problems are increasing. Until recently, no one had ever approached the
> Trust looking for permission. However, due to the recent changes in state
> law, we have had some requests which we were required to turn down due to
> the agreements in place with donor foundations. Even without these
> restrictions, the mountain does contain very steep slopes, which, if made
> accessible for vehicular traffic, would drastically change the wilderness
> aspect of the area. Because of the increased unauthorized ATV traffic, the
> Trust will soon be posting the roads against vehicular traffic.
>
> In conclusion, while we regret that we must respond that we cannot allow
> such usage, I hope you can see the logic of the donor foundations that in
> the long run, preserving this wild area will be the best course of action.
> Without the help of those foundations, this land would have been sold to
> development groups which would have prevented all public usage when their
> housing developments were built. We do appreciate and recognize the
> responsible use (i.e. clean up drives, etc) that your group has performed in
> the past.
>
> Sincerely,
> Dick Jarrett,
> Treasurer, FSHT
>
>

[Scott SKEETER Brown]

I visited Limington Town Hall today (what else whould you do on your 10th wedding anniversary) and there seems to be a controversy over who owns the the road. Trying to find more out from the selectmen.

[jeepndd]

Yet the latest example of why we need to establish our own conservation fund to keep open spaces open for EVERYONE and not just an elite few.

<- Saw this coming.

[KJP98TJ]

i saw it coming first.