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MA DCR work group, immediate attention please

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MA DCR work group, immediate attention please

Postby mike_belben » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:28 am

http://www.mass.gov/dcr/recreate/ohv/ohvworkgroup.htm

is anyone aware of this? 3 or the 4 meetings have taken place and the report is due november 15th so time is of the essence. NOHVCC was invited but does the NEA or E4W have any representation here? its a little topheavy with the conservation/anti-groups so im quite worried as to the outcome.
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Postby mike_belben » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:37 am

found this link useful, the MA DCR policy in effect for establishing state ORV trails

http://www.mass.gov/dcr/recreate/ohv_policy.pdf
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Postby Scott Hatch » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:30 am

As far as the second link there is a 1000 pound max weight limit in effect that prohibits 4x4s from making trails on state lands.
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:23 am

I dropped the ball on this one.
There is one meeting left.
Invite only.
ATV guys were in attendance, I'll see if I can get some minutes.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:44 am

Did you receive a reply about this being invite only?

BTW HTF can a meeting with a state institution be invite only?
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:51 am

Major Problem
I need matching riding gear

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Re: Off-Highway Vehicle Enforcement Working Group
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2007, 09:00:55 PM » Quote

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The minutes of the first meeting are representative of the concepts presented for further discussion. All the participants were given an uninterupted chance to convey their overall perspective on the topic. There was no debate or deliberation. The ideas presented are to be used in building the agenda for the meetings to follow. I'm aware of several ideas from the meeting that to me seem fanciful, ill considered and un-workable. I'm also sure that a couple of other participants feel the same about the ideas presented by the motorized-use reps.

I'm impressed with the over-all composition of the group and I feel that the voices of logic and reason have a chance to prevail with them. I have to thank the DCR (and Gary) for their care and consideration in selecting them.

I've had a couple of people ask me how they could participate and represent their club/group at the meetings. I also noticed that a conservation mgmt rep had also received similar querys from reps of like minded organizations. The DCR has received a lot of similar requests from every direction.

To reiterate: The size of the group shall remain as is and admission is by appointment only. A larger group probably wouldn't contribute many new or different perspectives but it would take much longer to reach a consensus of opinion. There are only 3.5 meetings left and a lot of ground to cover. The DCR has put up the web page to let everyone know what's happening. I'm writing here to let you know that reps from NEATVers, Mass ATV, NETRA and the Berkshire Trails Council are there to represent you and welcome your input.

If anyone has comments or observations that they aren't sure belong in a public forum then email me at: president@massatv.org
There are also numerous options available for private forum postings. The admins here can give you more guidance on that. I really, really, really want to hear what you have to say.



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Postby mike_belben » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:37 pm

Scott Hatch wrote:As far as the second link there is a 1000 pound max weight limit in effect that prohibits 4x4s from making trails on state lands.


right, but its also got some useful details about how to shoot holes in the current DCR maintained legal ATV lands. more later.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:00 am

The NEA had introduced legislation a couple of years ago to remove the weight limit rule but it was killed in committee due to the Gay Marriage bills.

Perhaps its time again to introduce this....
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Postby mike_belben » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:02 am

have you got any links where i can read up on that? old threads?
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Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:24 pm

I know Mark Dupont was very involved on that...may want to chat with him.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:32 pm

I would still be opposed to raising the 1000 lb rule.

Call me nuts, that's how I see it.

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Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:36 pm

So you don't want access to public land :?:
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:03 pm

exactly, without removing the 1000lb rule our sport will not obtain access to public lands in MA

BTW the new ATVs and ranger side by side seater type vehicles are pushing the weight limit as well so there may be more support out there for the removal of this limit than just 4x4s
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Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:18 pm

I'm confused...maybe it's terminology. If you "raise" the 1000lb rule-wouldn't that give us access? That is where Paul confused me. Obviously if we "remove" rule that would be an advantage too.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:38 pm

I don't want "their" trails.

I want our own trails.

They have parts of 7 state forests.

very lame terrain suitable for stockers.

We wheel different terrain.

We need different trails.

They have built and maintained their trails and the associated relationship with the DCR.

If we ever wanted trails we should start from scratch and build our own.

The multi-use trail ideology does not work.

:paul:


I know Scott and other old-timers will say "a lot of those under 1000 lb trails used to be our trails". oh well. Start over.
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Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:41 pm

Ah...so I am not confused then. I understood Paul..and he just gave me the reason why I was asking why he wouldn't want the access.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:28 pm

Scott Hatch wrote:exactly, without removing the 1000lb rule our sport will not obtain access to public lands in MA



Why is this true?

That's like saying "I want chocolate ice cream, I want it now, if we don't get chocolate ice cream to eat we'll never get to have ice cream ever again"
It's their chocolate ice cream, go find some chocolate chip, or better yet, Rocky Road.
I think you just need to think out of the box a little.
You want a system that works right?


You really feel like having a quad slam into you at 50 mph coming around a bend as your crawling at 3 mph?
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Postby JayZR2 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:42 pm

Paul wrote:
You really feel like having a quad slam into you at 50 mph coming around a bend as your crawling at 3 mph?

With this for a bumper he'd fair worse then me. :lol:
Image
hyp·o·crite   [hip-uh-krit]
noun
1. A person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
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Postby Zaedock » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:50 pm

Paul wrote:I would still be opposed to raising the 1000 lb rule.

Call me nuts, that's how I see it.

:paul:


I'm going to have to go along with Paul on this one. The multi-use trail in this instance won't work. We definitely need our own.

I drive a big Jeep off road.
I also have a modded 400EX sport quad.

I know both sides of the fence. IMO, the two cannot exist on the same trail. Some trails we ride are one way and sometimes, we ride hard. Imagine doing 50-60 mph through the woods and you come up on a Jeep doing 2-3mph. :shock:
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Postby mike_belben » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:51 am

thats a really tough call, and i can see ups and downs to each side.

shared system benefits:

*ORV gets legal trail usage
*stockish ORVs are spreading less damage by trying harder trails like coy over and over, spreads abuse over more acres.
*it is progress, that the DCR is actually recognizing us as a legitimate user group, not just something they want to brush under the rug. it is an admission on their part that we arent going away, and have rights as taxpayers.


negative side:
*wide open for all the greenies to see the erosion we can create
*some assholes will drink/wheel and litter in the parks and it will be big publicity
*a fatal crash in the paper will be hard press to shake.

i know we are better off as independent entities, but there is strength in siding with ATV'ers, not just in numbers and their organizations (which the state acknowledges) but also because of the special registration they pay. it is a quantifiable tax amount the government is collecting from a recreation group.. its concrete. its harder for us to say in definate terms, hey look how many wheelers there are. with atv's, its a fact. 25,005 regsitered in MA for 06, period. "where is our money going?"

i wouldnt turn it down if they raised the 1000lb rule, but id still continue the fight for OHV specific land.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:14 am

The 1000lbs is not a restriction to existing trails, it is a restriction for all DCR lands. I agree that we need our own trails, but that will not happen on public lands while the weight restriction on all DCR lands is in place
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Postby rblank » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:49 am

You're all right.

As Scott said, the 1000# limit is on all DCR property, not just the trails. In order to get legal trails on public land (not right of way's like unmaintained roads) then the 1000# rule needs to be lifted or modified.

But I do agree that something should be put into the works again. But people need to step up and volunteer to get this type of work done. Land Use isn't just about trail cuts. Everyone wants to do that. But you need to get the land access first before you can cut a trail on it.
*DISCLAIMER* - The views expressed herein are the personal views of the author and do not in any way represent, nor imply to represent, the views of the North East Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs, it's officers, members, or affiliates.
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Postby Paul » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:48 am

your all amatuers.

Search the MGL's as to the definitions of what is:
1) a Road
2) a Way
3) a trail

find Garys loophole! 8)
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