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Postby mike_belben » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:51 am

okay, so it seems like we have a rough outline of what needs to be done.

what can the little guys do at their respective clubs to start shuffling the deck into some sort of order in preparation of a large scale coordination?

what long term political events need to be aligned, and what actions can the every day land use guy begin making now to help achieve that?

is this going to work with NEA and EC4 devided or do we require a unifying organization?
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Postby mrfreakinwhite » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:28 am

is this going to work with NEA and EC4 divided or do we require a unifying organization?

x2
I'm on the fence about trying to get JF to reconsider the cost of membership in the two organizations.
Let us know.
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Postby nuthinfancy » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:20 am

Dumb new guy question.
If we put all the groups together- how much time (=lost wages) & real money, has been "wasted" (not sure thats the right word) fighting the govt & green groups? Money that could possibly have gone into the purchase of an off road park to suit all?
Another question- what's the possibility of privatising an area?
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Postby Scott Hatch » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:33 am

This is an agenda that Steve had sent to me

Agenda:

Introductions

Trails

Action:

Compare our trail lists (minus private property). Whatever we share, discuss the legalities and sources involved. Is it open? Is it questionable? Decide to take it off the table or not. Leave the rest on the table.

Purpose:
We need a definitive list because if we don’t even know what we have, how can we tell the states we need more? Also for the Draft Trail Management Plan

People

Action:
List clubs and estimates of members.

Purpose:
Resource management

NE TRAIL MANAGEMENT PLAN (Rough Draft)

Action:
Assign clubs to trails…sort of an “adopt a trail” program. “X” club from NEA and “X” club from EC adopts “Y” trail. These clubs will be the stewards for that trail, environmentally and publicly. Of course club numbers and location would need to be accounted for, meaning NEA may have 2 clubs to 1 of EC’s on a given location or vice versa.
Purpose: Better coordination during land use issues, quicker response to negative publicity, and easier to facilitate clean-ups and/or environmental concerns.

Action:
Create a usage matrix showing what clubs will be using what trails/roads throughout the year. Private trails included (although “private” would be the title of the trail).

Purpose:
Knowing what clubs will be where, the Associations will have a greater understanding of what trails are seeing over-use and will be able to suggest alternatives.

Action:

Make sure members have or carry NEA or EC cards/stickers/something…

Purpose:

Identification during trail runs
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Postby rblank » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:27 am

Agenda and organization! Image
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Postby tammylynn » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:49 pm

Wow...nice work Steve :shock: Maybe you should be Secretary.... :lol:
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Postby JayZR2 » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:52 pm

Not our Steve, Steve aka adk_tj
hyp·o·crite   [hip-uh-krit]
noun
1. A person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
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Postby tammylynn » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:05 pm

Oh...
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Postby mike_belben » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:34 am

agenda looks good IMO

has a date/location been decided on or in the works?

ive noticed its commonplace to go to meetings (not just in the 4wd world) and discuss what "we need to do" and then leave without delegating specific tasks to specific members with specific deadlines, leaving the handful of concerned people to do everything. i just wanted to bring up the idea that managing people's efforts will be key to accomplishing anything.

we have a lot of eager volunteers, we have a list of things to do. just have to be sure that someone manages to match an item listed to a volunteer.
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Postby JayZR2 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:52 am

Scott Hatch wrote:
DAVE: December 1st it is :up:


Noontime
Charlemont Inn

Scott Hatch
Steve Alheim
Dave Brill
Paul Regish
Liza Snow
Tammy Van Gemert
Steve Alheim
Jason Ghelli
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Postby Scott Hatch » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:02 am

mike_belben wrote:agenda looks good IMO

has a date/location been decided on or in the works?

ive noticed its commonplace to go to meetings (not just in the 4wd world) and discuss what "we need to do" and then leave without delegating specific tasks to specific members with specific deadlines, leaving the handful of concerned people to do everything. i just wanted to bring up the idea that managing people's efforts will be key to accomplishing anything.

we have a lot of eager volunteers, we have a list of things to do. just have to be sure that someone manages to match an item listed to a volunteer.


Yes, delegating a responsibility. No problem :up:
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Postby markdupont » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:57 am

JayZR2 wrote:
Scott Hatch wrote:
DAVE: December 1st it is :up:


Noontime
Charlemont Inn

Scott Hatch
Steve Alheim
Dave Brill
Paul Regish
Liza Snow
Tammy Van Gemert
Steve Alheim
Jason Ghelli


Mark Dupont
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Postby mike_belben » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:37 pm

Dec 1st
Noontime
Charlemont Inn

Scott Hatch
Steve Alheim
Dave Brill
Paul Regish
Liza Snow
Tammy Van Gemert
Steve Alheim
Jason Ghelli
Mark Dupont
Mike Belben
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Postby adk_tj » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:45 pm

Scott Hatch
Steve Alheim
Dave Brill
Paul Regish
Liza Snow
Tammy Van Gemert
Jason Ghelli
Mark Dupont
Mike Belben

I hope in order to keep the meeting on topic and produce results, we keep this list under 10 AT MOST. I'm shy... :wink:
I'm not in a position to tell anyone not to attend of course.
EC representation will be limited to just myself, Dave, and Mike.
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Postby tammylynn » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:15 pm

I am only attending to take Minutes and I can record the tasks and assigned volunteers.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:54 pm

Thats our final list then :up:
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Postby rblank » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:22 pm

tammylynn wrote:I am only attending to take Minutes and I can record the tasks and assigned volunteers.


I don't buy that for a single second! You? Not voice an opinion?! Never happen....

:lol:
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Postby ToxicTurtle » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:31 pm

rblank wrote:
tammylynn wrote:I am only attending to take Minutes and I can record the tasks and assigned volunteers.


I don't buy that for a single second! You? Not voice an opinion?! Never happen....

:lol:


duct tape... does a body good... :lol:
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Postby adk_tj » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:08 pm

sure does!



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Postby tammylynn » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:24 pm

Hey.... :oops: :lol: I will bring duct tape. Honestly-there will be enough opinions floating around and I planned to just be the note taker. Thanks alot Rog...just when I thought we were getting along....
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Postby ToxicTurtle » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:10 am

Wow, How old were you in that shot Steve? :shock: :P
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Postby rblank » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:56 am

tammylynn wrote:Hey.... :oops: :lol: I will bring duct tape. Honestly-there will be enough opinions floating around and I planned to just be the note taker. Thanks alot Rog...just when I thought we were getting along....


I didn't know we never were. :oops:
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Postby Zaedock » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:31 am

Steve(adk_tj) and Dave Brill,
Here is a good topic for discussion at your summit meeting. Please read the following PM I sent to Scott regarding last nights(11/14/07) Ware Conservation Commission meeting:

Scott Hatch wrote:
Zaedock wrote:First, I want to let you know that the meeting went pretty well. There were quite a few new landowners I haven't previously met, and they're happy that we're helping out. A couple weren't happy, but I'll do a write up for the meeting in the FOCH forum later.
A disturbing thing happened tonight. Roughly toward the end of the meeting, after I assured the landowners that the responsible organized enthusiasts are ready to help the situation, Dave Kopacz (Ware Conservation Commission Chair) asked if we knew Underground Jeeps. Apparently, someone from UJ has been approaching the landowners in the area and asking for permission to wheel their land. This has been done within the last two weeks.

These are several posts made by Joe Kaminski from UJ:

kcvikingrun Reply #13 on Yesterday at 8:44pm
the real problem is rich banfield cutting trails in no go zones. this was building but hit the fan when he did that. Hey be glad that in two months we have had two articles in the paper pushing our efforts. We will survive, just hope to many other clubs dont keep pushing and pissing people off. I have numerous volunteer acts we are doing to rise above the rest. Just remember guys as long as you stick with us and do our part undergroundjeeps will never go away. There's only one side "the dark side"


This post is a contradiction. I do not comprehend how "other" clubs are pushing and pissing people off, when he is soliciting for land owner permission when the situation is very sensitive. Also, that first newspaper article brought so much attention to the area, IMO, it was the catalyst to the recent events.

kcvikingrun Reply #6 on Nov 5, 2007, 6:33pm
no dont say A word.. you know how high up I went
to get in that article...Leave the politics to me I have us covered. I will have isolated maps and permission slips soon that every driver will carry with him/her if they are caught in areas they are not supposed to be they are banned. I told you Ive been busy.. Just out of sight


I know that Underground Jeeps has many responsible members who are willing to do the right thing. I can't understand why someone, especially with the situation the way it is, would approach a landowner and ask to wheel their land (currently damaged land). I am not trying to pick on Underground Jeeps, but their name has been tossed around all over by landowners and local wheelers. Dave Brill really needs to address this. Let me know what we can do.

Talk soon,
Joe


I think the best thing we can do is approach both Steve and Brill with this latest information. UJ is working against a combined effort damaging our position. If they are still unwilling or unable to restrain Joe I think we start laying out the facts to the public about UJ, their efforts to undermine ours for their own selfish use, and the eyewitness reports of Jeeps with UJ seen on their hoods.



Here is another recent Post by Joe K.
Scott Hatch wrote:
I have been extensively working on the land issue. I have a plan soon to be open topic of a terrain park here in mass. Exclusively gated for us only. No ifs and or buts. Ill keep the etails quiet for a while longer but have faith guys we are not like the rest of these ding bats cutting trails and arguing with towns. Just hang in there and soon enough we will be on the top. Just because a man or club has been around for 20 years doesnt mean they know an azz from an elbow. Dont forget I wrote the book on politics I had a long phone call with one of our state reps and things are in the works...


Dave & Steve, I have been very patient and understanding with this. Dave, I recently emailed you with a concern from a local who indicated he saw Jeeps with "Underground Jeeps" on their hoods cutting trails at Coy. Because it was "here-say" it was dismissed and kept between us. It has now gone beyond that. I really don't care what association Underground Jeeps is a member of. I also know that Joe K's actions may not represent the intentions of Underground Jeeps as a club. What I do care about, is that Joe K (in whatever capacity) is a MEMBER of Underground Jeeps, and therefore, a MEMBER of EC4WDA. Therefore, you need to do something about this. I am not going to waste my time and the time of many volunteers because of one guy's actions. This is completely unacceptable!

We need to really lose the EC vs NEA vs who gives a rats ass attitude and start policing ourselves, regardless of association. If Baystate or Patriot or NEJeep members did something like this, you let me know and you bet your arse I'd be looking into it.

I am so very pissed right now, that I have nothing more to say. Please let me know what we can do with this.
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Postby adk_tj » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:41 am

:shock: Thanks....

Kinda wished you coulda PM'd me that, but too late now...
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Postby Zaedock » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:57 am

adk_tj wrote::shock: Thanks....

Kinda wished you coulda PM'd me that, but too late now...


I tried PM'n before. It has gone beyond that.
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Postby Paul » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:57 am

I'll throw some thoughts/opinions anyways:

Since the beginning when we met 2-3 years ago at Whitcomb Summit there was a question of UJ overusing Coy Hill.

I'm not sure the UJ club is to blame for all this, just a few in the leadership.

I really wish Joe K would step back and become a team player, or step out of the picture entirely.

The landowners/powers that be in this situation REALLY REALLY do NOT need to see the politics and internal strife that's going on here. Unfortunately they will see it based on Joes actions.

There's not much we the NEA can do besides talk, Underground Jeeps is not part of our Association of Clubs any more.

I feel really bad for Joe O who has spent an enormous amount of personal time/effort to make good here.

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Postby jsongy » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:58 am

I've stated multiple times that I wish to work with your group. I have little knowledge other than what you post as to Joe K's intentions. I have posted my contact number- to get no response. I have spoken on this forum regarding Rich Banfields cleanups. I also have NO DECALS other than factory equipt on my Jeep. Now that I've ranted on what appears to be deaf ears, what can I do to assist?
A$$hole @ Large...Again
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Postby Paul » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:04 am

jsongy wrote:I've stated multiple times that I wish to work with your group. I have little knowledge other than what you post as to Joe K's intentions. I have posted my contact number- to get no response. I have spoken on this forum regarding Rich Banfields cleanups. I also have NO DECALS other than factory equipt on my Jeep. Now that I've ranted on what appears to be deaf ears, what can I do to assist?


I think getting a few UJ members to talk to Joe K would be a good thing.
I have no doubt in my mind he is a strong willed, great leader of your club. In my opinion I think he may have some blinders on. He really needs to think about the other 35 clubs and hundreds of other people who wheel the area who are not associated with him and are also trying to do the right thing.
J, you ever hear of the expression "a bull in a china shop" ??
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Postby Scott Hatch » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:33 am

jsongy wrote:I've stated multiple times that I wish to work with your group. I have little knowledge other than what you post as to Joe K's intentions. I have posted my contact number- to get no response. I have spoken on this forum regarding Rich Banfields cleanups. I also have NO DECALS other than factory equipt on my Jeep. Now that I've ranted on what appears to be deaf ears, what can I do to assist?


What Paul said.....and we want to work with you as well, the coalition that was created is supported by both Associations as well as unaffiliated wheelers/users. The shots being called at Coy Hill are being made from Joe O. as the appoint project leader. He is meeting with the various town officials, landowners, and state officials, do not feel slighted that you may not have received a call. We are all volunteers that are juggling work, families, and trying to find time to squeeze these items in.

The biggest thing you can do for us is try and restrain Joe K. from his actions that affecting both the NEA and EC4WDA as well all our member clubs and hundreds of concerned recreationalists.
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Postby adk_tj » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:36 am

(I really need to learn more names!) :lol:
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Postby Zaedock » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:33 pm

John,
I really do appreciate that you, XJMA, and others from UJ have signed on to try and resolve this issue. I know that you signed in at the FOCH forum. Deep down, I truly feel that Underground Jeeps as a club, wishes to do the right thing. I also know that you very much want to help, but it takes time, meetings, and scheduling to get a date together. I promise you all, that everyone will have a chance to help when the time comes, and again, it is greatly appreciated.

One way that you and every Underground Jeeps member can help out now, is to talk to Joe and have him join our efforts instead of taking this on by himself. Despite being very aggravated, I am still willing to work with him. He has a lot of energy and drive. He is just going about it the wrong way.
To quote Joe:"Just because a man or club has been around for 20 years doesn't mean they know an azz from an elbow. " This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Try to understand that some here have wheeled the area for 20+ years without incident, overuse, and local complaint. The overuse up at Coy started to occur roughly three years ago when NEJeepZ and Underground appeared. They were new clubs with many young members who wanted to wheel as much as they could. At that time I communicated with John Shelton from NEJZ and Joe Kaminski and talked about overuse and public perception. While the overuse wasn't necessarily caused by "official" club runs from either group, it was the small weekly treks by members that started to cause the damage. John Shelton was very proactive and addressed his club immediately and there have been no issues since. Joe K on the other hand, responded very negatively. The UJ website (before I was "banned") advertised weekly wheeling trips. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough places to go without wheeling a place every other week or even monthly. That's overuse.

The bottom line John, is I have no hard feelings toward Underground Jeeps, EC4WDA, or any other organized body. What I do have an issue with are those who know something is wrong and won't do anything to help. There is alot going on at Coy, even talk of closing the roads into the area. Joe K knows this, knows of our efforts, knows of our website, and yet he still goes behind our backs (and this includes Underground Jeeps) and jeopardizes critical relations with the landowners and local authorities. With the amount of time and effort that many have put into this project, I'm not going to allow this.

I am asking all Underground Jeeps for your help! Times have changed and our public perception is poor. Joe may not like me, but all I am asking for is a mutual cooperation that will benefit everyone in our sport. Please help us out.
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Postby axle » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:58 pm

NEJZ was not overusing Coy, people from our club, who have since left, were.
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Postby Paul » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:11 pm

Did they join Underground?? :lol: :lol:

sorry, j/k. bad joke.

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Postby markdupont » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:17 pm

adk_tj wrote::shock: Thanks....

Kinda wished you coulda PM'd me that, but too late now...


Come-on man, we need to put ALL the cards on the table otherwise how are we supposed to fixt things????
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Postby adk_tj » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:46 pm

markdupont wrote:
adk_tj wrote::shock: Thanks....

Kinda wished you coulda PM'd me that, but too late now...


Come-on man, we need to put ALL the cards on the table otherwise how are we supposed to fixt things????


I don't mind playing the game, but you can't expect anyone to jump from poker to rummy in the middle of a game, can you? :lol:
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Postby Paul » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:56 pm

caribbean stud, always put your dollar in the bonus slot, and always stand with a pair, that's all I got to add. :paul:
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Postby ToxicTurtle » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:40 pm

I have never been able to get ahold of Joe K. I have only once met Joe K about 2-3 years ago. I have been contacted by other members of UJ about the Coy Hill and other issues, and presumed that Joe K had slid a bit out of the picture. I have never been able to get onto the UJ site, despite several folks saying they got my passwords/sign in stuff set, so I have been totally unaware of the latest ramblings and rants taking place. I did recently receive an email from Rich Banfield telling me to make Joe shut up and spewing on about Joe bad mouthing Rich and drinking on the trail etc.

I tell ya, all the crap just totally puts a bad taste in my mouth.. this one said that, this one denies and blames that one... its really a freekin high school side show that at 6PM, after just rolling in from a nasty ass fire job, really sets me off. Its one of those things that almost pushes one over the edge of saying screw it all... I'm too tired to deal with all the bullshit.

I feel in no way is it MY responsibility to tell Joe to stop... especially after several other well respected members of the 4WD community have. If he isn't going to respect others who have been doing this for over 20, why is he going to respect me any more. If he;s going to be a prick, he's a prick, plain and simple. All we can do is make sure that the town, Kopacz, the landowners, etc, know that it is the unified effort of those who Joe Ostrenga is representing, that they need to look at and ignore Joe K.

As much as all will completely deny, I would bet that there are members from every MA and even some of the CT and NH clubs that have gone to Coy Hill "too much". I would take that same bet and put Lamentation on it for the CT clubs. In recent years, most of us who have been around for a bit, haven't done any of that, but 15 years ago, I would bet that we all did. Despite the vast amount of knowledge out there for the JQ Wheeler to grab ahold of, many don't see it, aren't looking for it and are where we were 15 years ago. So, with that in mind, although we know it to be bad, most new to the sport have no clue. Doesn't make it right, but should allow room for us to understand where they are coming from and how to approach and educate.

We are dealing with independent adults who don't give a rats ass about the land that many of us groomed, maintained, "kept open", found, researched, etc. I love Paul's Locust. It does a great job of describing those out there fugking it up for the rest of us.

At work I have a very short fuse.. I am not a baby sitter. If an adult, working for me screws up once, they're spoken to. Second time, they get told again, third time... they're gone.
What do we do here? Bad Joe, don't do what you are doing! Joe says F You! I'm doing what I want. So, can we arrest him? No. Do we ban/toss the entire club from an association based on the unaffiliated actions of one (or possibly a couple) individuals? That doesn't seem right. As adults, we are limited to what we can actually do to reprimand/punish.

So, if you all want/need a token email from Dave Brill to Joe requesting he cease and desist his actions at Coy Hill, some one email me with his email and I'll shoot one off to him.

The last thing I'd ask is for those who are pointing fingers at clubs, associations, people, etc. and saying, Oh, they are an EC4WDA club or they are an NEA club, its all bullshit, I'd ask for that to stop. Their association affiliation has absolutely no bearing on their behavior as adults. There are equal number of people in every association out there doing wrong things.

I'm tired of all the inter-club/association personal political crap. I am a pissed off wheeler who is going to fight to open public land.. I don't give a freekin crap if ten thousand people tried and it hasn't worked, I don't give a crap if it hasn't happened in CT in 21 years, I'm pissed and I'm going to try. I'm going to do clean ups, cut trails, speak to landowners, get more private lands, and I'm going to do it with anyone who will follow along and has energy. I don't give a crap what club they're with or what association. If they want to receive info via the EC4WDA land use list, I'm adding them to the list, whether they are members or not, because by-laws don't know didly squat about who is an energetic fighter.

I am pissed, I'm tired and I'm going to have dinner.


Talk soon,
David Brill
Land Use Chair: East Coast 4WD Assoc.
Land Use Chair: Region D/Northeast of EC4WDA
President/Land Use Chair. for Eastern 4 Wheelers
Tread Lightly! Master Trainer
Blue Ribbon Coalition
NAMRC
NOHVCC
CTU
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Guilford, CT
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Postby adk_tj » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:55 pm

Something CAN be done Dave...I'll call you tonight (or tomorrow).
booger is a funny word
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Postby Paul » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:49 pm

I can go along with I think, ooohhh lets see, just about 100% of what Dave said.

Thanks Dave, go have a beer too.

and.....do a better job at being our babysitter next time eh? :lol: :poke:
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Postby Paul » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:52 pm

adk_tj
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject:

Something CAN be done Dave...I'll call you tonight (or tomorrow).
_________________
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President - EC4WDA Region D
4x4 Delegate - NYS Trails Council


come to think of it, yea, wtf is Dave supposed to do? Because he is Dave Brill(registered trademark R)? I catch your drift. I think this guy above is the one we should be complaining to. :mrgreen:
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I'd like to attend too

Postby PatriotJeep » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:47 pm

I'd like to attend too.

Rich Banfield
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Postby Scott Hatch » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:49 am

I agree with you about the disgust with after school drama special but its a reality we need to face and intentional or not one that is undermining our joint efforts. Its about accountability for the clubs within our respective Associations and the members within our clubs. Both of our organizations have leverage that can be used towards this goal.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:12 am

I am quoting this post from the Coy Hill thread, this post was made by Joe Kaminski under jsongy screen name

copied from here:
http://forum.nea4wd.org/viewtopic.php?p=26802#26802

Joe Kaminski wrote:John let me write briefly under his name otherwise I havent been here since we parted ways. I need people to understand from where I come from. I have changed alot over the past few years and donate many hours to volunteer work, through the worcester chamber of commerce,corridor nine, and the appalachian mtn club. I come from a long back ground in politics mostly conservation. My mother was on the conservation commission, mass congress of lakes and ponds, and wrote for the telegram. Obviously when the articles were written they come out different then when they were spoken. The man who wrote the rticle was on the board of the mass fisheries and wildlife, whom I had a direct interview with. He is actually a good friend of my mothers. This activity around coy hill has gone back to some of your larger clubs meeting at the rock house reservation for years. I was made aware by my mother who used to do wildlife photography who couldnt even park in the STATE parking lot due to 30+ jeeps hoarding the area.
We dont need to point fingers but I havent bothered anyone but people are stealing sections off my board and manipulating them into things they arent. I started talking with the town officials and others long before this happened, when I heard from a police officer that things were buiding. Now I understand that I speak for my group and you are managing an effort for many more 35 clubs? So here's what ill offer: Id like to sit with joe o and a few others and offer my resources of officials which goes as far as the state house. I will make our efforts run parallel rather than cross. All I ask is that people stop bothering me when this is done. I dont drink anymore, I run a company, I have a great life. I have my own land negotiated. When we run coy its usually 4-8 jeeps and thats it. Most of my members live within 10 miles of it. I cant monitor all of them going up there. If anyone can get a plate number of one of my guys allegedly CUTTING, let me know Ill kick thier azz and ban em. I worked way to hard to lose everything over a few idiots. Remember you have been in this sport many of you for 20+ years. I have been here for 3! Now if you think about the contacts I have made and the articles being written, Id look more as I will be here in 20 years and be very well established so lets live together and stop thriving on accusations, If at any point anyone wants to contact me call me. 774-262-7278 Lets save coy and move on. Joe Kaminski
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Postby adk_tj » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:20 am

Thanks for that post Scott. :up:
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Postby Paul » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:09 am

Id like to sit with joe o and a few others and offer my resources of officials which goes as far as the state house. I will make our efforts run parallel rather than cross


Well, there's hope.

Other than that......I'll do what my mommy taught me. Image
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Postby Zaedock » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:27 am

Scott Hatch wrote:I agree with you about the disgust with after school drama special but its a reality we need to face and intentional or not one that is undermining our joint efforts. Its about accountability for the clubs within our respective Associations and the members within our clubs. Both of our organizations have leverage that can be used towards this goal.


This paragraph is why I posted to Dave & Steve for help. Dave, I completely understand your position and like you, I don't care about NEA vs EC vs Underground vs Patriot vs whoever. I think that's all crap and although it will probably never go away completely, the summit that everyone is going to will hopefully make it much better.

On the other hand, I do believe in finger pointing(and that's not the same as the he said/she said soap opera crap in a stupid post). We need to self-police and investigate as much as we can regardless of affiliation. I also believe in directness. I don't like PM's. If someone does something stupid I'm gonna call you out. Again, it doesn't matter who they're affiliated with.

My objective, is to work on the Coy hill issue. I am going to help the land owners and town regardless of the fact that I will probably never wheel there again.
All I want is for everyone to get along and work together.
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Postby Zaedock » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:32 am

Paul wrote:
Id like to sit with joe o and a few others and offer my resources of officials which goes as far as the state house. I will make our efforts run parallel rather than cross


Well, there's hope.

Other than that......I'll do what my mommy taught me. Image


This is a good start. I'm glad Joe decided to post up and communicate with us. I would like nothing more than to work with anyone who can positively contribute to this project.
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Postby jsongy » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:56 am

I also believe in directness. I don't like PM's. If someone does something stupid I'm gonna call you out. Again, it doesn't matter who they're affiliated with.
All I want is for everyone to get along and work together.[/quote]

i'VE BEEN CALLING! No response.

I was asked to bring Joe K in on this and YES, I delivered. Scott that was my phone # that Joe used, and I was present for the whole conversation.

I allowed him access to this site for he's being spoken about, but yet he's locked out. Kinda unfair.



Lets stop the he said - she said and come up to date! In fact I remember being able to trailride my dirtbike as a kid out @ Rutland Prison Camp until it was closed alegedly due to JEEPS. You guy's have been wheelin in the area for how many years ? 20? Forget it and move on.
A$$hole @ Large...Again
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Postby JayZR2 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:23 am

For the record, I just checked Joe's screename, kcvikingrun and it is active. His permissions may have changed when Underground decided not to reup for 2007. But his username is still active. Even so, this is in a public section of the forum and he should be able to see it with standard permissions.
If he forgot his password, I can reset it for him. Just let me know.
Last edited by JayZR2 on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
hyp·o·crite   [hip-uh-krit]
noun
1. A person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
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Postby Paul » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:25 am

Oh my head.

:?
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