nea4wd.org


Welcome To The Northeast Association of 4WD Clubs

Action Alert! Meeting Tue, 1/11, to support RI OHV park

*Public* Our trails are an endangered species. Please visit and contribute to this forum often.

Action Alert! Meeting Tue, 1/11, to support RI OHV park

Postby BobBarry » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:58 am

We need to get AS MUCH support for this as possible, especially from the RI and CT guys. Whomever can attend and provide an effective voice MUST show up. Public lands cannot be the only source for our trails, and projects like this one must receive all our support. I apologize for the late date on this, but it was just published yesterday:

The Sun, Westerly, R.I. Wednesday, January 5, 2005

Proposed Park for bikes, ATV’s draws opposition

By James Schlett
The Sun Staff

CHARLESTOWN — A proposal to develop a 45-acre park for dirt bikes and snowmobiles near the Ninigret National Wildlife Refuge is drawing opposition from a Rhode Island conservation organization and the Narragansett Indian tribe.
Friends of the National Wildlife Refuges of Rhode Island and tribe officials last month separately wrote letters to the town Zoning Board of Review to “object strenuously” to a Charlestown couple’s application for a major recreation center special permit.
Randal C. and Rose M. Lamb in July submitted plans for the South Shore Recreation Center that would be based off 100 Lewis Trail.
The park would have three areas for off-road vehicles, such as dirt bikes, all-terrain vehicles, sports utility vehicles and snowmobiles, according ot the Lambs’ special permit application.
The Lambs said the project would not adversely affect neighing properties or drinking water. It would instead provide a “much needed recreational venue for the off-road vehicles of the community,” according to the application.
The refuge group and the Narragansetts challenged the Lambs’ environmental impact claims, saying that the project could threaten area wildlife and tribal water sources.
Friends of the National Wildlife Refuge of Rhode Island Chairwoman Laura Landen urged zoning officials in a Dec. 10 letter to reject the Lambs’ application. She noted that the area could house over 141 species, of which 32 are identified by the state as species of special interest. One animal there is currently petitioned for listing under the Endangered Species Act.
“Many wildlife species are disturbed by excessive contact with humans, excessive noise, light and air pollutants,” Landen said in the letter. “This impact on wildlife affects us, as it diminishes our enjoyment of such wildlife and of quiet places.”
Tribe Director of Planning Eric Wilcox warned in a Dec. 3 letter to the town of the “irreversible” affects spilled motor oil or gasoline in the proposed development would have on the environment. The proposed park would abut some of the Narragansetts’ 1800 acres of settlement lands.
Wilcox said ther was no evidence to contest the environmental impacts that the project would have the tribe’s watershed and two ponds. He also cautioned about park patrons trespassing onto tribal property and producing a “harmful relationship” between the abutting property owners.
The Providence-based GZA Geoenvironmental consulting firm stated in Dec. 6 letter to zoning officials that the project would have no significant impacts on groundwater on or off the site.
The park would attract 20 to 30 motor bike riders on a typical summer day. The recreation center’s motor bike season would run from April to November while snowmobiles would use it during the winter months, according to the GZA letter.
The Lambs bought the Lewis Trail property in 1999 to build a single family home on 2 acres. Their remaining 45 acres would have been used for a wild game farm, but changes in state and federal agricultural and environmental regulations hindered that plan, according to their application.
The Zoning Board will continue is public hearing on the proposal at 7 p.m. Tuesday at Town Hall.
Jschlett@thewesterlysun.com
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby Paul » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:00 am

Every single time any park is brought up, any riding area proposed, the endangered species are pulled out of the bag.

If not here, then where?
I'm sure there are thousands of acres and refuges throughout RI, but not one legal place to recreate in an ORV.

Where is the balance?
Creating a place like this will actually create a containment of recreationalists and will stop them from potentially tresspassing on other sacred grounds.

ORV's are a "problem" that are not going to go away. Closing out recreationalists to all properties is not a solution, it just creates more of a problem. There must be a place to ride, that is, unless all ATV's, dirtbikes, horses, snowmobiles and Jeeps are made illegal.
Guy that used to do stuff a long long time ago.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 7230
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:42 am
Location: Hadley, MA

Postby Scott Hatch » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:10 am

What time and where is this meeting?
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby Paul » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:29 am

The Zoning Board will continue is public hearing on the proposal at 7 p.m. Tuesday at Town Hall.
Jschlett@thewesterlysun.com
Guy that used to do stuff a long long time ago.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 7230
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:42 am
Location: Hadley, MA

Postby Scott Hatch » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:29 pm

Paul wrote:
The Zoning Board will continue is public hearing on the proposal at 7 p.m. Tuesday at Town Hall.
Jschlett@thewesterlysun.com


Thanks :oops:
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby Robin » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:04 pm

The [url=http://www.charlestownpolice.org/vertical/Sites/{DF68A5B8-A4F3-47A1-AE87-B411E21C6E1C}/uploads/{35E16D45-7630-4F43-BD4C-805F698B7276}.PDF]AGENDA[/url] is posted and their website also posts minutes. The agenda posts the laws the Lambs are filing their special permit under :D which I will print and review. I plan to attend since I get out of work at 4:30pm. I'll also see if anyone else from NE Jeep can go.
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Robin » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:04 pm

Does anyone live close to Charlestown that could pick up "Table 30.1 District Uses" at the town offices? I can get everything else online.
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:03 pm

Robin wrote:The [url=http://www.charlestownpolice.org/vertical/Sites/{DF68A5B8-A4F3-47A1-AE87-B411E21C6E1C}/uploads/{35E16D45-7630-4F43-BD4C-805F698B7276}.PDF]AGENDA[/url] is posted and their website also posts minutes. The agenda posts the laws the Lambs are filing their special permit under :D which I will print and review. I plan to attend since I get out of work at 4:30pm. I'll also see if anyone else from NE Jeep can go.

I was about to call you to see if you were going Robin. I usually get out of work at 4:30 also depending where I'm working. Carpool?
Guest
 

Postby Robin » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:07 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Robin wrote:The [url=http://www.charlestownpolice.org/vertical/Sites/{DF68A5B8-A4F3-47A1-AE87-B411E21C6E1C}/uploads/{35E16D45-7630-4F43-BD4C-805F698B7276}.PDF]AGENDA[/url] is posted and their website also posts minutes. The agenda posts the laws the Lambs are filing their special permit under :D which I will print and review. I plan to attend since I get out of work at 4:30pm. I'll also see if anyone else from NE Jeep can go.

I was about to call you to see if you were going Robin. I usually get out of work at 4:30 also depending where I'm working. Carpool?


Who are you :lol:
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:10 pm

Robin wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Robin wrote:The [url=http://www.charlestownpolice.org/vertical/Sites/{DF68A5B8-A4F3-47A1-AE87-B411E21C6E1C}/uploads/{35E16D45-7630-4F43-BD4C-805F698B7276}.PDF]AGENDA[/url] is posted and their website also posts minutes. The agenda posts the laws the Lambs are filing their special permit under :D which I will print and review. I plan to attend since I get out of work at 4:30pm. I'll also see if anyone else from NE Jeep can go.

I was about to call you to see if you were going Robin. I usually get out of work at 4:30 also depending where I'm working. Carpool?


Who are you :lol:

xjmark. I just registered, I guess I should sign in huh? :roll:
Guest
 

Postby Robin » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:15 pm

Yes, let's definitely carpool. Any other CT folks want in?
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby rblank » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:38 pm

Robin, is the section you're lookinf for part of the zoning ordinance?

I don't live close to Charlestown, but the firm I work for has a civil engineering dept, and we MAY have it on file.
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby Robin » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:41 am

Roger - it is part of the Zoning Ordinances. John Cabral had offered to go down but if you have it on hand all the better!!
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Guest » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:01 pm

Sorry Robin. No luck. I even checked at Ordinance.com, but they don't have the tables their either. Have you considered calling the Zoning office and asking them to fax you the table? You never know......
Guest
 

Postby rblank » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:32 pm

I take it back Robin. I did find it. I'm going to have to e-mail it to you. I guess we can't post files here.

Guess I should have signed in too. <sigh> too much to do & not enough time.
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby Robin » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:35 pm

Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby rblank » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:39 pm

I'll be heading to the meeting straight from work. Save me a spot!!

Do we have some form of a game plan for tomorrow? Or is everyone going to just stand up and say "I think this is a great idea"
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby BobBarry » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:49 pm

Just an update in a response to the notice of this meeting at the NE Dirtbike Forums:

http://www.nedirtbikes.com/forum/topic. ... C_ID=14689

OK Here is an Update!
I just spoke with the landowner/applicant for this
The other abutter to his land is DEM Fish/Wildlife
They just submitted a 2" thick letter of oppisition to the Town. Their positions are
#1 There are already nine state sponsored riding
area availible for the ORV community in the state.
#2 The endandered species arguement.
#3 Noise level issues; they have a sound study
in hand explain potential impact
#4 Current Town Zoning Ordinance
#5 Private Road Access issues.
The land owner would like anybody availible with
ANY facts to counter these arguements to attend
the meeting. Also, he feels that the people
opposed to this proposal will try to pack the
room to prevent the meeting from being held.
Giving more time for the opposing viewpoints to regroup.


Responses that people attending the meeting should be aware of:

#1- There are NO riding areas in ALL of Rhode Island, apart from a flat dirt road in Arcadia Management Area that could be driven in a Ford Taurus. If the DEM makes that claim, ask the representative to go on record with the location and mileage of those nine trails (dirt roads don't count), and we'll see riders there on Wednesday. Besides, ATV's are EXPLICITLY prohibited from all state land in RI! From the Park and Rec FAQ for the state of Rhode Island:

http://www.riparks.com/FAQ.htm#10.


10. Are there currently any public lands, parks or trails where ATV's can legally be used?

No, at this time there is no public property that is available for ATV use.


So the state says there are ZERO riding areas for the ATV's that would be used in this OHV park. You might want to print out that page of the state website to submit as evidence.

#2- There MIGHT be endangered species there, or there might NOT. Somebody failed their logic class. Their reasoning is something like the following:

* Endangered Species exist in Rhode Island
* This property is in Rhode Island
* Therefore, there are endangered species in Rhode Island.

You might also use the fact that Laura Landen, the Friends of the National Wildlife Refuge of Rhode Island Chairwoman, is a PHILOSOPHY professor at Providence College where I teach, and should be embarrassed to commit such a logical fallacy on public record.
b
#3- Some potential impact is no reason to not do it. We are not living in a freakin' WILDERNESS area! The region has been inhabited for centuries, so don't fall for the argument that this is destroying the pristine silence of untrammeled land.

#4- The very meeting is BECAUSE of the town zoning ordinance; variances are granted precisely because such ordinances are general guidelines that the town can grant variances to. Geez, somebody school these people in basic Local Government 101, won't they!

#5- I don't know what private road access issues means.
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby Robin » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:25 am

Thanks Bob - very good information.

Mark and I will leave CT shortly after 5pm and should hit the area by 6:30pm barring any weather issues - again :roll:
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Paul » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:48 am

You might also use the fact that Laura Landen, the Friends of the National Wildlife Refuge of Rhode Island Chairwoman, is a PHILOSOPHY professor at Providence College where I teach, and should be embarrassed to commit such a logical fallacy on public record.


ouchies.
Guy that used to do stuff a long long time ago.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 7230
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:42 am
Location: Hadley, MA

Postby BobBarry » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:40 am

Report?

I've heard from the NEOW board that it wasn't conclusively productive.

Any lessons to be learned?

A big thanks to those who did attend! :D
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby rblank » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:55 am

First off, I hope everyone that did go made it home safely.

I think the jury is still out. But I'm getting the impression that it's not looking good. I don't know all the original details of the proposal, but he's got a pretty serious up hill battle.

As far as lessons learned.....we (as a community) need to get our act together. There were a lot of studies and reports that our side refered too, but no one thought to produce and bring those studies.

Also, if you're not a very good public speaker, you should have someone else do the speaking for you. The applicants vocabulary and demeanor was less than stellar.

On a positive note, there were A LOT of OHV people there last night. People were standing in the back of the room. Definately about 70% pro-OHV. This is the kind of turn out we need to see on a regular basis.

I'll be formulating some ideas and thoughts and I'll put together some kind of a report to submit.
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:10 am

Thank you Roger for attending....just the fact that we had a presense sends a strong message that we are here and willing to fight for our sport.

What are the reports you are referring too? I am in the process of creating a library of materials for us.

Scott
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby BobBarry » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:44 am

Here is a message of thanks from the RIOHVA president, Bill Derby:

Good morning Everyone,
First I would like to thank everyone that attended last nights meeting in Charlestown. I think we presented very impassioned and factual evidence to the Zoning Board. Of course the comment from Mr. Vandemore from the Fish and Wildlife Service about every animal being an individual and the Swan that nests along the highway in East Providence being a "New York kind" of animal shed some light on where these people are coming from. Of course he didn't mention how the Fish and Wildlife Service has reintroduced Wolves and Coyotes that eat these little "individuals" and how he intends to control the exploding Deer Population but I guess the noise of a shot gun or rifle isn't a problem.


Whatever transpires from the meeting, it is very important to expose yourself to public speaking, to see what legitimate issues there are and how best we can address them in the future. "Practice makes perfect". And we need to have a major turnout at these meetings. I can assure you that the Town Council and Zoning Board was surprised that such a large group turned out and was so well prepared and I am sure that this is only the first meeting of many in many towns that will address this issue in coming months and years. Great Job and I look forward to working with everyone in the future.


With Regards Bill Derby
President RIOHVA
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby Robin » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:42 am

I agree that the Lambs have an uphill battle against the reports and resources of the Fish and Wildlife. The Naragansett Indian Tribe was also there in force in opposition of the petition. It would be helpful for us to have the exhibits that were produced last night in preparation of the continuance meeting on January 25.

Do we have an attorney that would be willing to attend? Attorneys were given major preference at the meeting and by the end of the evening the public never had a chance to speak. An attorney (besides the one representing the Lambs) would be able to question witnesses and speak on behalf of the OHV community.

We can state our opinions and what we know to be fact all we want but another thing I learned last night is the importance of credentials by the Zoning Board. Each person who testified as to noise was asked if they had formal training in noise, etc. with the exception of the Fish and Wildlife witness.

On a positive note, the attendance of the OHV community was enormous and like Roger said, it was standing room only. I can see that forging of relationships with groups like NE Dirtbikes and NETRA can only be positive and they were very pleased to have us there. I see now that opening these lines of communication will be the best way to produce the numbers needed to show towns, states, etc. that we are here, we're not going away, and it's time to listen.
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Paul » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:29 pm

The applicants vocabulary and demeanor was less than stellar.


Are these the people that own the land that are trying to open to ORV's?

and....

Netra has an attorney. We do not.
Guy that used to do stuff a long long time ago.
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 7230
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:42 am
Location: Hadley, MA

Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:08 pm

Not QUITE true......trying to get some pro bono work from a friend
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby rblank » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:26 pm

Scott There were some references to noise studies, and reports written by DEM officials that showed results that were not negative and in our favor. There was also a few groundwater contamination studies mentioned by an engineer from GZA. These are definately the types of items that we need to get our hands on and keep on file.

Robin glad to see you post. That means you made it home ok. roads were a little scary last night. Which must be pretty bad for me to say.

A lawyer would be a HUGE asset that would provide a well respected face to the questions. I would expect that most Zoning board meeting would cater to the interested parties and place the general publics comments towards the end of the proceedings. A lawyer could interject at critical times, as opposed to when the material has been forgotten. Problem is, is that some one may do it Pro Bono a few times, but I wouldn't want to ask them repeatedly. Maybe we should explore a joint venture in this with all OHV user groups? (NEA, NETRA, RIOHVA, ECA, etc...)

Paul Yes the land owner is the applicant as well. Not that he's a bad guy, just not very eloquent in his speech.
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:34 pm

Do you have the name of that official?

Freedom of information act requires that IF a request is made they need to turn that over. I would like to follow that up and request a copy of that report.

Scott
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby rblank » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:57 pm

Not off hand, but Bill Derby the Pres. of RIOHVA should know. I'll coordinate....

Scott, this may be a good starting point to get some other reports:

http://www.nohvcc.org/noflash/nav/libindex.htm
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby Robin » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:23 pm

rblank wrote:Robin glad to see you post. That means you made it home ok. roads were a little scary last night. Which must be pretty bad for me to say.


Thanks, the roads were pretty bad. I took my time and got home after 1am without any DOT plow sightings in RI or CT :roll: Thanks to xjmark for his company and talking me through the hairy spots!

rblank wrote:Paul Yes the land owner is the applicant as well. Not that he's a bad guy, just not very eloquent in his speech.


I also didn't find the applicant's attorney to be very well spoken or their ground water expert - very soft spoken and unsure of his conclusions. Bill Derby and the NETRA rep (I remember Haas but not the first name) were both excellent.

Scott - if your friend is willing to do some pro bono work on this or any project(s) I am happy to work with him/her. My undergrad is in legal studies and I have been a paralegal for over 4 years, 3 of them as an environmental paralegal. I can do all the leg work and research cutting down on a significant amount of the attorney's time. I just can't give legal advice.
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby BobBarry » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:55 pm

Robin wrote:I also didn't find the applicant's attorney to be very well spoken or their ground water expert - very soft spoken and unsure of his conclusions. Bill Derby and the NETRA rep (I remember Haas but not the first name) were both excellent.


That would be Bill Hass.

What is more amazing is that the landowner only contacted outside OHV people FIVE DAYS before appearing before the board. That in itself is not a positive thing; it's rather shortsighted, in fact. The amazing part is that we were able to mobilize so many people from so many user-groups on such short notice. I believe we are going to reap MANY rewards from being organized across many states and across many different user-groups.
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby BobBarry » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:05 pm

Here's a response on the thread over at NE Dirtbike:

I'm too busy at work at the moment to comment. The meeting lasted until 11:00pm at which time it was continued until 1/28/05.

I appears that the percetion is that the proposal is for a facility the scale of Daytona Motor Speeedway and the applicants tried to help focus people on the scale of the project. I think there could be a lot more work of the public's perception, and zoning board's for that matter.

The applicants presented information to relieve concern about environmental impacts related to sound and ground water. They also showed the were willing to go beyond reasonable requirements to help put the Board at ease, hoiwever, the Board tried to use that against them.

A couple of objectors were present.

One neighbor that could be described as eccentric to say the least, who did not make any clear reasons for objection except to object.

Another was the Narragansett Indian Tribe. The Tribe's attorney was very ineffective at making any point and in my opinion not a threat.

The last was the US Fish and Wildlife (USFW). They have an attorney and a field biologist that manages the local NWR's. At last night's meeting the USFW did not make an agrument that could stand up either (other than whether the project is allowed under the Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Ordinance.) The Biologist spoke of damage to the local NWR and made some points that are outrageous.



* Any clearing of the subject's property will have an adverse effect on the NWR. I bet they would not say this if he wanted to farm and clear cut all 47 acres for farming.

* By having cleared areas for riding, then seeds carried on riders/bikes could be dropped and introduce invassive vegitation. Does this guy listen to himself? Using that arguement you would have to kill all birds that fly overhead and leaf eating mammals, etc.

* As a result he said they would have to close certin area's of the NWR. This is untrue in my opinion. Across the country there must be many conservation areas open to rideing. Locally the Mass SF's.



Although, in my opinion, the objecting comments made at the meeting are groundless or capable of being managed, I have a major concern that the Board will find a way to ensure that project is stopped by ruling that it is inconsistent with that Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Ordinance.

I plan to attend on the 28th.


Should we work up a plan of action in cooperation with RIOHVA and NETRA?
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby Robin » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:04 pm

BobBarry wrote:Should we work up a plan of action in cooperation with RIOHVA and NETRA?


I like that idea. I'm almost positive I was sitting next to the guy who wrote the above post at NE Dirtbike and those guys were very happy to have our support.
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:22 pm

So whats the bottomline? Does this come down to a zoning issue and locals are citing environmental issues to keep things as they are?.....local officials are often blind to concerns other than their local residents. If the majority of locals don't want it, the project may be doomed. IMHO the way to sway any local official is to show them the finicial benefits of this venture.

I think this is a great chance for us to assist NETRA and other groups but is there ANY potential access for us here?
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby BobBarry » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:45 pm

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to ANY of those questions. :oops:

From the little I know, I think that access for 4x4's at that place would be minimal or marginal, if there was any at all (the original proposal mentioned the inclusion of 4x4's, but apparently at the meeting 4x4's were not identied as one of the uses?).

So I believe our efforts are going to yield two results:

1. We will gain an education in how to effectively deal with these kinds of situations. That will require planning an effective strategy, implementing it, and then reviewing the results and revising our strategy for any upcoming situations.

2. We will be adding to the numbers representing MX/ATV interests, and will be calling in those chips when it comes time to argue for one of OUR pet projects in the future. RIOHVA is one body built on the recognition of the mutual support ALL OHV groups need to provide to each other in order for there to be any sustained and successful effort for access. I suppose it does open one user group to being stabbed in the back by another, and this kind of cannibalism has happened in other states, but knowing the NETRA and RIATV people I have met through RIOHVA, I am confident that such a problem is merely remote and hypothetical.

Who would like to extend the offer of assistance in formulating a plan with the NETRA and RIATV people? I envision this happening through RIOHVA, with representatives from all user-groups sitting down with the owner and his lawyer, getting a firm sense of where we are, and then formulating a coherent strategy.

I don't want to pretend to be a one-person RI Land-Use god, however; NEA4WD is a member of RIOHVA, and each NEA4WD member should feel entitled to take part in this effort. Plus, I am not free on Tuesday evenings, so I am not likely to be able to do more than help brainstorm.

Should I propose a sit-down to Bill Derby, the RIOHVA president, and see where that goes? I can link him to this thread and see what he would think is the best avenue to pursue.

What do people think?
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI

Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:57 pm

I think those are both important enough points to continue assisting in this issue.

I think it is important for us (the NEA) to sit down with NETRA and RIATV through the RIOHVA...after all this is what the group is for. Could you ask bill about the possibility of a sitdown or should we do this at the next RIOHVA meeting?

I'm not sure how many Rhode Islanders we have in the NEA but I will post a call for help. trust me I know what it is like when there are a thousand things happening only a hand ful of people. No one should do it all.

Scott
User avatar
Scott Hatch
 
Posts: 13902
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:59 pm

Postby rblank » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:44 pm

AS I stated before, I wasn't able to review the original proposals, so I'm unclear on some of the details. But is the location in question actually IN the wildlife refuge? If so:

1. It really doesn't stand a chance.

2. It may not be the most suitable location.

3. I'm not so sure I personally want to support the endevor.

But anyway, I was particularly impressed with the Lamb's legal counsul either. However I've worked with John Spirito firmon a few occasions. They're a top notch, and very well respected firm. Although he didn't exactly have a commanding presence, he knows his stuff.

As far as a joint effort between user groups, we have to start somewhere. Plus all Bob's points are extremely valid. They're not going to be willing to help us, if we don't do the same.

It's my understanding that the original proposal for the facility was to include snowmobiles, and vehicles. I think that has been since dropped in the interest of making it more attractive to the town.

As always, I'll healp in any way I can....But man is Charlestown a haul from Braintree! :shock:
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby kfealy290 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:25 am

the Lambs first mistake was trying to make a profit off of the track they wanted to construct. If they just asked to make the money to counter act the funds it would cost to keep the track conditioned and build the filling station there would have been no need for commercial use. There would have been no profit involved.

I hope all town meetings regaurding OHV's arn't like that. Although they did have a strong cause, i dont think the Lambs lawyers portrayed his angle very well. And what was teh deal with the towns lawyer. Was it me or did he has a stick up his a*s.
kfealy290
 

Postby Robin » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:31 am

Scott Hatch wrote:So whats the bottomline? Does this come down to a zoning issue and locals are citing environmental issues to keep things as they are?.....local officials are often blind to concerns other than their local residents. If the majority of locals don't want it, the project may be doomed. IMHO the way to sway any local official is to show them the finicial benefits of this venture.

I think this is a great chance for us to assist NETRA and other groups but is there ANY potential access for us here?


The Lambs are applying for a special permit under sec. 218-25 and 218-30 of the town ordinances.

§ 218-25. Special use permits.

A. A special use permit may be approved by the Board following a public hearing if, in the opinion of the Board, that evidence to the satisfaction of the following standards has been entered into the record of the proceedings:

(1)The public convenience and welfare will be substantially served;

(2)It will not result in adverse impacts or create conditions that will be inimical to the public health, safety, morals and general welfare of the community.

(3)The requested special use permit will not alter the general character of the surrounding area or impair the intent or purpose of this Zoning Ordinance or the Comprehensive Plan upon which this Ordinance is based;

(4)That the granting of a special use permit will not pose a threat to drinking water supplies;

(5)That the use will not disrupt the neighborhood or the privacy of abutting landowners by excessive noise, light, glare, or air pollutants;

(6)That the sewage and waste disposal into the ground and the surface water drainage from the proposed use will be adequately handled on site;

(7)That the traffic generated by the proposed use will not cause undue congestion or introduce a traffic hazard to the circulation pattern of the area.


Opposition has ranged from studies of ATV user deaths and injuries against #2, public safety; that it is against the Comprehensive Plan for the Town, #3; threat to drinking water supply, #4/6 - the property is located above a town aquifer which provides ground water for wells and the ground water flow "could" affect the aquifer; excessive noise to abutters and animals, #5; too much traffic on a road that is not passable for 2 vehicles traveling in opposite direction, #7 also this road leads to the Narragansett Indian Tribe.

The Zoning Board has to rule on these issues of law only. The rest is all filler and meant to bog down the Board with negatives for the project. I have to agree that making this a commercial venture was a bad idea considering the abutters and their resources. The Lambs don't have a lot of money to spend on these types of tests. The ground water rep has outstanding credentials but testing of this type is extremely expensive and very broad testing was completed due to the cost. The Lambs best bet was to ask for donations from those using the property and book clubs such as all of ours for weekends for a donation for their upkeep.

We talked about the town attorney on our way home, major attitude :roll:
Image

Delegate for rent, inquire within.
User avatar
Robin
 
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Hebron, CT

Postby rblank » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:20 pm

Yeah, the town atty needed a slap.....
User avatar
rblank
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Attleboro, MA

Postby BobBarry » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:00 pm

More interesting responses at the NEDirt board:

http://www.nedirtbikes.com/forum/topic. ... C_ID=14689

Look at the latest posts and tell me what you think.

None are too optimistic. I e-mailed Bill Derby, and he sees it as more of a learning experience for us than a realistic plan to get by that board. At most, we can provide a show of force through numbers, and maybe publicly refute the DEM's claims. But it looks like wheeling in RI is going to have to be on specially-purchased and designated open spaces.
Bob Barry
2000 Excursion
2002 Overland
User avatar
BobBarry
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am
Location: Providence RI


Return to Trail Conservation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest