nea4wd.org

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:22 pm**

http://www.telegram.com/article/2009122 ... 1101/LOCAL

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:22 pm**

Public forums set on state forest land

By George Barnes TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
gbarnes@telegram.com

WESTBORO ? Continuing to involve the public in planning the future of state forests, the state Department of Conservation and Recreation will sponsor five public forums in February to discuss draft recommendations on the stewardship and management of forest lands within the state parks system.

The DCR began the Forest Futures Visioning Process last spring to determine how best to manage the myriad public benefits and values of forest land within the agency?s parks system. That includes recreation, tourism, aesthetics, renewable forest products, habitat diversity, landscape ecology and how to strike the appropriate balance among them. The process has several components, including forming an advisory group of stakeholders and the Technical Steering Committee, which includes academics, practitioners and scientists; it is developing draft recommendations with input from the public and the stakeholders.

?We are committed to having an open, wide-ranging, public conversation about forests in Massachusetts,? said DCR Commissioner Richard K. Sullivan Jr. ?We had three public forums and forest tours over the summer, and we look forward to the Technical Steering Committee?s recommendations and hearing public comment.?

The Department of Conservation and Recreation contracted with the Massachusetts Office of Dispute Resolution & Public Collaboration at the University of Massachusetts in Boston to develop a design for the public process. Among the forums in the summer was one in Leominster that included a visit to the Crow Hill Wildlife conservation area.

Among the upcoming public forums is one scheduled for 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. Feb. 4, at the Westboro Public Library, 55 West Main St. The snow date is Feb. 16.

The other forums are 10 a.m. to noon Feb. 6 at the North Adams Public Library, 74 Church St., North Adams; 2 to 4 p.m. in Melville Hall, Room 201, at Berkshire Community College, 1350 West St., Pittsfield; 5 to 7 p.m. Feb. 9 at the Jones Library, 43 Amity St., Amherst; and 5 to 7 p.m. Feb. 11 at the Taunton Public Library, 12 Pleasant St., Taunton.

The Technical Steering Committee is composed of 20 people who have expertise in the issues, trends and best practices of forest conservation and ecology, invasive species, landscape ecology, natural resource economics and law, recreation, silviculture, social policy, aesthetics, watersheds and wildlife habitat.

The draft recommendations will be posted soon on the Web site of the Department of Conservation and Recreation, www.mass.gov/dcr. The public is encouraged to review the recommendations and comment on them by sending e-mail to MODRDCRFFVP@umb.edu. The Technical Steering Committee is expected to make its final recommendations to the state later in the winter.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:06 am**

So can we get any of our MA resident members to attend any of these meetings to represent the interests of the NEA and 4x4s in general?

These are on a Saturday:
> > 10 a.m. to noon Feb. 6 at the North Adams Public Library, 74 Church St., North Adams

> > 2 to 4 p.m. in Melville Hall, Room 201, at Berkshire Community College, 1350 West St., Pittsfield;

These are evening meetings:
> > 5 to 7 p.m. Feb. 9 at the Jones Library, 43 Amity St., Amherst;

> > 5 to 7 p.m. Feb. 11 at the Taunton Public Library, 12 Pleasant St., Taunton.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:16 am**

Feb 4 @ Westboro public library also. 6:30 -8:30P.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:25 am**

I might be able to hit the Taunton one, but not sure yet.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:10 am**

Thanks John, I over looked that as it was in a different paragraph :oops:

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:46 am**

This is a really bad time for me, besides the wife being due around then.
no-can-do.
I will relay this to NEATV though if they don't have it posted yet.

:paul:

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:30 pm**

Scott,
I'd like to see this subject brought up @ the NEA Jan 9th meeting. I'd like to attend one of these public forums and feel I don't have enough experience/ knowledge on the subject of land use. If there are members interested in going to various dates/locations, is there PR -type literature ready to be used so that EVERYONE is saying/showing the same info. It would also be great to refer to NH guidelines to show what can be done.

Maybe I'm just losing it?

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:49 am**

You're not loosing it - our presence at these meetings is important as MA DCR denies the existence of recreational 4x4 use and do not see 4x4 use as a viable sustainable form of recreation.

As you looking for general information about the NEA for PR type literature or something specific for land use?

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:33 am**

jsongy wrote:Scott,
I'd like to see this subject brought up @ the NEA Jan 9th meeting. I'd like to attend one of these public forums and feel I don't have enough experience/ knowledge on the subject of land use. If there are members interested in going to various dates/locations, is there PR -type literature ready to be used so that EVERYONE is saying/showing the same info. It would also be great to refer to NH guidelines to show what can be done.

Maybe I'm just losing it?

John, I'll be attending at LEAST one of these.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:17 pm**

Scott Hatch wrote:As you looking for general information about the NEA for PR type literature or something specific for land use?

Acting as a representative of the NEA at any of these meetings, information would need to articulate the usage(both positive and negative) of 4x4 use. We have to be able to admit that what we do does pose erosion issues, yet it would be nice to have IN HAND information to offer about how we handle Land Management and how clean-ups have been performed to show our support of multi-use areas.

Many "green" groups would only view erosion areas and trash left behind, Not the efforts of clubs that clean trails or remove vehicles from sensitive areas. Even individuals that assisted/ still assist MA EPO/DCR/WMA personell with clean-up of ice-damage on state lands.

As I've said at meetings before, WE ALL need to speak the same voice - even as individuals. What I mean is that if I go to a meeting, Mike attends a different one, then Roger atends yet another one - OUR information and views need to be the same, as the panel of representitives the state sends out are probably going to be the same at each meeting.

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:16 pm**

I understand but I wasn't sure exactly what you were looking for....I think I can throw a rough draft together and post something up by Monday and then we can add and/or remove information

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:26 pm**

John, if erosion became a sticking point in discussion, you talk about trail hardening and the positive things we do to minimize impact.

Every trail user has impact, from horse hooves to strollers.

I'm sure there is more concern about trespass issues, but none the less, the discussion should be about what to do with forest land.

I was seriously looking at attending North Adams and then Pittsfield that Saturday, and then another.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:06 pm**

We need to get as many people to all the meetings we can.
I'll post this to our club and I plan to make what ever meetings I can.
We should post who is going to these meetings and make sure we hit all of them.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:16 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:40 pm**

PatriotJeep wrote:We need to get as many people to all the meetings we can.
I'll post this to our club and I plan to make what ever meetings I can.
We should post who is going to these meetings and make sure we hit all of them.

Sheer numbers may intimidate, possibly not in a good way either. Well prepared and knowledgeable speakers can gain a higher respect rate.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:11 pm**

jsongy wrote:
PatriotJeep wrote:We need to get as many people to all the meetings we can.
I'll post this to our club and I plan to make what ever meetings I can.
We should post who is going to these meetings and make sure we hit all of them.

Sheer numbers may intimidate, possibly not in a good way either. Well prepared and knowledgeable speakers can gain a higher respect rate.

That is how the green groups do it. They send a representative who has been prepped and polished. At least at alot of the forest service meetings there were a few people there to support the green side but it was typically only one or two people-usually the same person at each meeting-who actually spoke on behalf of the "group".

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:03 pm**

jsongy wrote:
PatriotJeep wrote:We need to get as many people to all the meetings we can.
I'll post this to our club and I plan to make what ever meetings I can.
We should post who is going to these meetings and make sure we hit all of them.

Sheer numbers may intimidate, possibly not in a good way either. Well prepared and knowledgeable speakers can gain a higher respect rate.

I just spoke with Jan Gordon from the SAM group about this and he said they usually send 1 or 2 people to these things as well. He said they don't do the sheer number thing for these. The SAM meeting is on thursday jan7th in springfield. I am going to attend, it is an open meeting for anyone interested. They will be talking about the dcr meetings then as well. He is going to talk to Dan the SAM president and get us some info that might help as well. I will bring this to our meeting.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:18 pm**

yes numbers won't do it alone.But wee need aleast a few people at each meeting.

We need a plan, We as a OHV group need to step it up offer to work to with the DCR. We want to use OHV roads in state forest forget the 1,000 pound rule and work on our OHV plan.The State of Ma does not have money to fund cleanups and to keep roads clear that is where we come in.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:31 pm**

Rich according to you the state and dcr won't work with us, and we should not waste our time with paperwork. Why all the interest? I hope you don't attend as the voice of the nea, since you usually disagree with so many topics within the org let alone what you would say to those outside.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:32 pm**

We can offer to keep these OHV roads open post our signs. The ATV groups had to sign papers saying what they would have to do in the past to use the ATV trails. we could do the same for OHV roads.There are still roads in W.Ma that have not been cleared from last years storms.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:41 pm**

No this is differnet When I get home I'll call some ATV buds and get the
paperwork they use.Never give up but adjust your plan.Regroup and try again. changing the 1,000 pound rule is not the way, having our own roads is the way.Ben Phelps is the guy I talk to a ATV rep.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:51 pm**

Rich according to you the state and dcr won't work with us.

They don't ,but we have to keep trying

When martab first came about I attended the meetings .There was a spot for a 4WD rep but no one whould tell me how to get on the board. Even the head of the board. They did not want us there.It was Ben Phelps who helped me get on. I attended meeting for a few years but martab had no backbone. I said we should use the board to assit the DCR.

But they never did.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:54 pm**

Rich, the rules DCR works are very clear. If it is a road then this must have a certain degree of maintenance, size, and the ability to travel with a car. You can call a trail for 4x4s anything you want, the 1000pound rule is very clear - you cannot operate any motorized vehicle over 1000pounds off a road on DCR property.

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:04 pm**

Scott I know that. Long time ago. I talked to Ben The ATV group signed
a MOA with the State (DCR)I'm going to get a copy to see if we can use a version of that to work for us.

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:02 pm**

jsongy wrote:
PatriotJeep wrote:We need to get as many people to all the meetings we can.
I'll post this to our club and I plan to make what ever meetings I can.
We should post who is going to these meetings and make sure we hit all of them.

Sheer numbers may intimidate, possibly not in a good way either. Well prepared and knowledgeable speakers can gain a higher respect rate.

I don't speak up much on these topics here but I couldn't agree with this more. We should have 2 people with the same polished statement and demeanor going to these. flooding the place trying to intimidate will NOT work, it only aggravates the folks who run the meeting.

I may attend the Taunton meeting, however I will sit in the back taking notes for the next time.

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:37 pm**

This is what I got so far. on the MOA
Memoranum of agreement The Atv people do 400 hours of labor.

I think it's time to let the state know that we are willing to do are share.

Each spring we should make sure all the roads are clear open and passable to us.We should log in those hours. OFR , Brown rd etc.

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:36 pm**

The state doesn't own these roads Rich, the towns do. They are logging hours on ATV trails that are on DCR land. At this time we have nothing to log

Posted: **Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:16 pm**

Again I know that. But we need to step it up with the state. The picture of a Jeep is not even on their maps unless it has a slash through it.

2010 could be the year we work with them lets make it happen.

We need to show then we can step up to the plate.

Posted: **Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:02 pm**

mrfreakinwhite wrote:John, if erosion became a sticking point in discussion, you talk about trail hardening and the positive things we do to minimize impact.

Every trail user has impact, from horse hooves to strollers.

I'm sure there is more concern about trespass issues, but none the less, the discussion should be about what to do with forest land.

I was seriously looking at attending North Adams and then Pittsfield that Saturday, and then another.

Mike, I may be able to make the one in Pittsfield with you...

Posted: **Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:05 pm**

Scott Hatch wrote:I understand but I wasn't sure exactly what you were looking for....I think I can throw a rough draft together and post something up by Monday and then we can add and/or remove information

Hi Scott. Did you ever get any sort of rough draft typed up?

Posted: **Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:16 pm**

No I didn't - sorry

Posted: **Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:59 pm**

Jeepin Dave wrote:
mrfreakinwhite wrote:John, if erosion became a sticking point in discussion, you talk about trail hardening and the positive things we do to minimize impact.

Every trail user has impact, from horse hooves to strollers.

I'm sure there is more concern about trespass issues, but none the less, the discussion should be about what to do with forest land.

I was seriously looking at attending North Adams and then Pittsfield that Saturday, and then another.

Mike, I may be able to make the one in Pittsfield with you...

That would be awesome, Dave.

Posted: **Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:28 pm**

I am off to the SAM meeting tonight. I will bring any info I can get to the meeting sat.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:04 am**

Just got home, met some helpful people there and got some insight on what to expect from the dcr meetings. Also got some ideas of what we may want to do at them. I will be at the sat meeting and share the details.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:03 pm**

We should try to set up a Adopt a 4WD road program. The MOA may not be the best deal. I could not get any paperwork on the MOA.

We need to make an agreement with the state that we will keep these
4WD roads clear.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:34 pm**

Scott Hatch wrote:The state doesn't own these roads Rich, the towns do.

"You don't own that plane, the taxpayers do! Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash. You've been busted, you've lost your qualifications as section leader three times, put in hack twice by me, with a history of high speed passes over five air control towers - and one admiral's daughter!"

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:30 pm**

PatriotJeep wrote:We need to make an agreement with the state that we will keep these
4WD roads clear.

Currently, if we wish to travel these roads, we already clear them ourselves as we go. So, why do we need an agreement to do this? What type of agreement do you propose?

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:14 pm**

I'll be unable to attend these meeting due to a schedule change.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:04 pm**

Joe your right.Sometimes we do work to these. But we don't get credit.
We could do more and get credit for RTF funds in the NE states.
Adopt a trail or road what ever you want to call it.
will show the state that we can make a promise to adopt these roads.
and take care of them. keep there free of trash and free from blowdowns etc. It will show the hours that we put in to these roads. I fixed a big hole in tunnel road last year. took me and another guy a few hours.Other states have this program for 4WD clubs. I know that it's on National park lands but we can still use a program like this. We have a form that we fill out that lists what we did and how many man hours.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:08 pm**

State/towns

Posted: **Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:57 pm**

I was at the Westbro meeting. A Big joke as they all are. but I went to make my point. and at least try. Talked to a reporter mentioned the NEA.

This is what the DCR wants: (Thousand acres)
Reserves 90 -120
woodlands 100-150
Parklands 70-90 (This is about OHV and ORV use )
some limit's on Recreation? close roads?

Speak up and be heard! I said the DCR needs to work with all OHV and ORV groups.

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:17 am**

I totally missed this! WTF!!!

Been dealing with personal problems.

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:48 am**

John you did not miss much.

Posted: **Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:34 pm**

I sat next to Archie Monroe. not in a club.

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:50 am**

So No one else went to this meeting?

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:02 pm**

jsongy wrote:Acting as a representative of the NEA at any of these meetings, information would need to articulate the usage(both positive and negative) of 4x4 use. We have to be able to admit that what we do does pose erosion issues, yet it would be nice to have IN HAND information to offer about how we handle Land Management and how clean-ups have been performed to show our support of multi-use areas.

I've got nothing. I may try to make the 9th in Amhrerst.

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:29 pm**

Looks like I'm out for the Taunton meeting, I'll be in CA.

Posted: **Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:43 am**

jsongy wrote:
jsongy wrote:Acting as a representative of the NEA at any of these meetings, information would need to articulate the usage(both positive and negative) of 4x4 use. We have to be able to admit that what we do does pose erosion issues, yet it would be nice to have IN HAND information to offer about how we handle Land Management and how clean-ups have been performed to show our support of multi-use areas.

I've got nothing. I may try to make the 9th in Amhrerst.

My surgery got postponed cuz I was sick, but I can do the 9th.
Wanna meet there, John?

Posted: **Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:45 pm**

mrfreakinwhite wrote:
jsongy wrote:
jsongy wrote:Acting as a representative of the NEA at any of these meetings, information would need to articulate the usage(both positive and negative) of 4x4 use. We have to be able to admit that what we do does pose erosion issues, yet it would be nice to have IN HAND information to offer about how we handle Land Management and how clean-ups have been performed to show our support of multi-use areas.

I've got nothing. I may try to make the 9th in Amhrerst.

My surgery got postponed cuz I was sick, but I can do the 9th.
Wanna meet there, John?

Literature, Mike? It'd be nice to have presentable info to hand out to DCR.

nea4wd.org

DCR posts public meetings in Worcester Telegram today

DCR posts public meetings in Worcester Telegram today