MFA Questions

[cmerrick]

It appears that we should have a good turnout for the MFA meeting. We will have a spokesman for our group that will be able to ask questions of the presenters. The primary focus should be asking questions of Bob O'Connor of EOEA. Please post in this thread questions you think we should be asking. Thanks for your input.

[Treasurer]

I want to know if there will be real ADA access to public lands? This can be accomplished through motorized access.

[Scott Hatch]

Question:
Given the TNC's history of anti-motorized use on its "protected" lands how will the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ensure that the TNC will have ALL of its tax payers interests in mind; which I might add include full size 4 wheel drive vehicles owners or SUVs, dirt bikers, ATVs, and snowmobilers?[/i]

[Scott Hatch]

Carl I'm moving this into the trail conservation area.....should be getting some more trafic.

Scott

[ToxicTurtle]

These aren't in any order... just whats flowing off the top of my head...
please pardon any grey hairs that may get mixed in...

What is the state's current stand on town roads that lead across/through state land?

Does the state feel that motorized recreation is a viable form of tourism and is it seen as a financial positive for the area of western MA? If no, why not?
Would you like to see the numbers in terms of the kind of dollars we bring into MA?

Can you relate to us what it is that you/the state think it is that we do..? IE Fullsize 4WD passenger vehicles.. If our "definitions" are off then we could be speaking apples and you're hearing oranges... we need to be on the same page...

What are the problems you see with organized motorized recreation..?

Seeing as the state has enlisted the aid of an obviously biased, special interest group to manage some its land, is there the possibility of getting motorized users to participate in the same planning/management?

Does the state make it a practice to turn away volunteer labor? Or only volunteers from users it feels aren't "forest friendly"..?

(some of these may be a little harsh... might be re-worded if actually asked.)

I'm sure I'll have some more cruise past the backs of the ole eyelids...

We should make plans to discuss this in person before the meeting... maybe set out who will lead the questions off and with what question... followed by what question, etc...

Talk soon,

[Scott Hatch]

I was looking at the schedule and I'm not sure when they will have a question and answer period.....If they do we should be prepared for a time limit per person. They may also have a one question per person rule in order to keep the meeting moving.

I suggest that we put all these questions on index cards so if this should happen we can hand the un-asked questions off to the next person......and have someone with legible penmanship write them....I know my chicken scratch won't work.

[Treasurer]

Do any of the State Forests have oppotunities for disabled people? An expamle of this would be disabled fishing and hunting program. Ths program would allow the use of a 4x4 on state forests to gain access to good fishing and hunting areas.

[Guest]

Would you consider allowing groups such as The Nea4wd group to adopt certian roads and areas to maintain and care for? Such as other clubs do with the Adopt A Hi-way program. Each group wether they be hunters, Atv'ers, bikers, hikers could adopt and care for roads and access paths into the forests.

just a thought.

[Treasurer]

I can say at the first meeting I had plenty of opportunity to ask questions. I stuck with the Disabled Access Issue. I left the other questions to Tom Brule. That guy knows his stuff. What we should do is ask if we can make a power point presentation at the next meeting.

[cmerrick]

I'll work on putting the questions on index cards tonight and we can discuss them at breakfast tomorrow.

for anyone interested, we are meeting saturday morning for breakfast at Joe's Diner, 85 Center St (Rt 20) in Lee at 7:30

[Scott Hatch]

RE-worked:

Question:
Given the TNC's history of anti-motorized use on its "protected" lands how will the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ensure that the TNC will have ALL of its tax payers interests in mind; which I might add include full size 4 wheel drive vehicles owners or SUVs, dirt bikers, ATVs, and snowmobilers, when setting policy on all state owned land?[/i]

NEED TO REMEMBER:
....steering from The Nature Conservancy to set policy on all state owned land

Just re-read.....the Commonwealth is receiving input from TNC on the steering on the health of the forests.....had to delete my previous post.

Question:
What other groups have been allowed input or included in the process to set policy on state Public Lands? If none why not? Have any motorized or commercial groups asked or been asked by the CoM? Why were they not included?

Question:
Why didn't the Commonwealth of Massachusetts receive assistance from a non baised environmental consulting agency?

Question:
What process is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts using to review reports from TNC used to help set policy to ensure that reports are not bias, misleading, or inaccurate or are they just accepted at face value?

[Treasurer]

Lets reword my ADA question.

Will the TNC have a provision for Americans with Diabilities Act access to state lands? By access we mean a person confined to a wheelchair, being able to drive a 4x4 vehicle up to the top of a mountain on a trail.

[Paul]

Greetings and salutations all. Scott asked me to post some statistics here that he would like to word into questions.

Massachusetts comprises of 5.2 million acres statewide.
1.1 Million acres are environmentally protected.
1.1 million acres have been developed.
3.0 Million acres are undeveloped.
Massachusetts has more land trusts than any other state.
Source: 2001 EOEA Annual Report

Massachusetts is the 44th largest state, but it has the 6th largest amount of land under environmental management.
Source: National Association of State Parks directors/ The Trustees of Reservations.

I'll see if I can dig more.

I also heard that Massachusetts is 75% woodlands, but I heard that on the radio only, I'll try to find a concrete source.

[Paul]

In August 2001, Governor Jane M. Swift announced the Administration’s accomplishment of having
protected more than 100,000 acres of open space in less than three years.
Source: MA DCR 2001 Land Aquisition Program Annual report.

The following projects were completed in Fiscal Year 2002 ( July 1, 2001 – June 30, 2002 ). With the help of our partners, just over 11,385 acres of land were acquired or protected.
Source: 2002 LAP report.

The following projects were completed in Fiscal Year 2003 (July 1, 2002 – June 30, 2003). With the help of our partners, just over 2390 acres of land were acquired or protected. DCR acquired most of these properties outright, through “fee acquisition.” The remaining projects were protected through conservation restrictions (which essentially remove the right to develop a property).
Source: 2003 LAP Annual Report


Its plain to see, that in the past 5 years, even though 44 acres of land are developed every working day in MA(source:trustees of the reservation), that conservation has outpaced development by nearly a 2-1 margin.

[Scott Hatch]

Great info Paul, thanks

[Paul]

Gunga, Gunga galunga.

[Paul]

Any Public reports on this meeting?

I saw Dave Brills post on the EC4WDA Land Use list. Looks like we made some good contacts and we can develop some postive relationships.

Thanks everyone who attended.
Paul

[ToxicTurtle]

Here's my take on the meeting.... This was sent out to our own lists... Don't take offence to the "harshness"...

I'd say the meeting was VERY informative... as the first speaker started, I wasn't sure if we were in the kettle... but after another few minutes, I realized we were among friends who are dealing with many of the same issues that we are in terms of access, Endangered Species Act, public misconception of what we do.. It even seemed that there were some there that had that misconception until Tom Brule did his presentation... We brought along about 20 copies of our Economic Impact Statement (which Tom quoted in his report ) All of them were taken..

We also spoke to some of the landowners present and there was definately the ideas flowing. We have made some inroads and have some contacts. Several of the presentations centered around how these landowners can make money off of their lands... starting other forest based businesses, having land leases and Tom's presentation about the benefits of wind power and 4x4 use to both the private landowner and the local economies where these landowners live.

These are people we have to stay in touch with and build a solid relationship with. I'll be firing off an email to their director soon.

I'd like to thank everyone that attended.... There were an awful lot of people there in general..I sort of counted about 25 people from the 4WD community... possibly some there that I don't know so there could have been more. The clubs that I saw represented were: CTJEEP, Eastern 4 Wheelers, New England 4 Wheelers, Rock Attitude, NEJ, Long Island Off Road and Freedom Trailriders. (Sorry if I missed any) Of course, our two associations were also represented directly by me (Land Use Chair), Scott Hatch (Chair of NEA4WDC) and Bruce Conroy (Region D/Northeast EC4WDA Chair)

When the EOEA person began to speak I could tell he was a bit uncomfortable... afterall, he was sort of the chicken in a den of wolves... every other word was UMMM...
He was very deliberate in his words and made sure that The Nature Conservancy was not mentioned much... maybe two times that I remember... He spoke of the Forest Reserves that will be defacto wilderness areas, about 15,000 acres each. He tried to convince these people /us that we won't lose anything that we don't already have access too... then proceeds to say that October Mt State Forest and Mount Greylock are two of the 27 sites they are reviewing... after all the reviews, they will produce about 4-5 of these forest reserves.

Now according to this guy, Bob OConnor, the Nature Conservancy only helped out in the gathering of data...hhhmmmm.... I can't say that I'm fully comfortable witheven that... even if it IS true... When we asked questions regarding OHV use and the fact that October Mt has numerous roads and trails currently open to motorized use and how could this state forest possibly have been included as an area that had Forest Reserve/Wilderness potential due to the fact of so many roads and how could it be even considered, his comments were rather evasive, stating that he was here to talk about forestry... we re-iterated that we had been put off before and really would like an answer... Again, as he squirmed like a worm on a hook, he tried to divert the question, saying that we'll have our chance to speak... but he would not committ to allowing us in on any ofthe intial planning meetings... we'll have the public comment period to be able to voice our opinions... and IF the majority of the people say that October Mt shouldn't be a reserve, then it won't be...
For those that don't know... October Mt is home to several roads that WE ALREADY use! Another area... Savoy.... ya know where OFR is... and guess what... a 10KM radius from there includes nearly EVERY road that we wheel on. Here's another deal... with each Forest Reserve, comes a 10KM buffer zone... Can anyone say WILDLANDS PROJECT!!! I haven't been able to find out just what won't be allowed in these buffer zones but the info I have found shows that land use will be severely restricted... whether on private lands or on public lands. Of course, major throughways will be still open... IE Paved roads... BUT the towns where the old town roads that we love so much exist, will surely be under pressure from the state and TNC to close them. Think of it like this.... If Oct Mt and Savoy Mt state forests get chosen as Forest Reserves and then the 10KM radius goes into affect we stand to lose: Undisclosed, OFR, Washington Mt road, Ashley Lake Rd, Top O The World, Elephant (oh wait thats in Vermont... doesn't matter... these reserves don't have state boundaries to worry about) Sucker Pond, Boulder, Sky Mt road, Bear Swamp, Old Dodge, and more..... Not a bad loss huh?

I have a map of the pre-selected sites... you can see it by going here: http://www.mass.gov/envir/forest/berksh ... ssment.htm then look specifically at 1) Determining the size of a Forest Reserve and 2) Forest Reserves in MA.

This should really get you up in arms. This is an area where we do a good deal of our wheelin and with out our strong involvement and regular input, we stand a very good chance at losing it. This means that when you are asked to write a letter regarding these Forest Reserves... you NEED to take the five minutes and actually write one... you CANNOT assume that someone else will do this job for you.

I really wish I could fully express the enormity of this and get you all to understand that when I say you.. I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON who reads this has to write, I mean every single person who reads this and knows five others who didn't, those that didn't need to write letters and show up at these meetings... Unfortunately... I have that bad stomach feeling that MOST of YOU will not write and then many will complain that EC4WDA or NEA or Blue Ribbon or.... didn't do enough to help us keep these roads open.
The green groups have a whole bunch of college kids (who don't have jobs or anything else to do but work on causes like this) working on this stuff and they get a whole bunch of letters written and sent into the the forest service... we can certainly match their numbers IF we ALL write these letters.
As a matter of fact, lets consider this the first letter that needs to be written.... send your email to this address
env.internet@state.ma.us
and tell them you strongly disagree with the Forest Reserve idea and do not want it in MA. Thats it... simple.
Address your letter to Secretary Ellen Roy Herzfelder at the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs.

At next weeks Region D/Northeast mtg I'll have some maps with me that show what I'm talking about and will be urging everyone to take this info back to their clubs and get people to get these letters written.

I would also ask that everyone reading this take it to your own lists and other forums and post it. Anyone who wheels up in western MA needs to get on board and work to defeat the idea of Forest Reserves.

To finish off I'd really like to thank EVERY SINGLE PERSON that DID attend the meeting on Saturday... Know that YOU are helping and you can feel better knowing that.

The people who didn't go just because they didn't feel like it... well, if you were one of those folks (and you know who you are, I'm not talking about those who had to work either...) then you can count yourself as part of the problem. If you don't take the five minutes right now ( or within the next day or so) and write the aforementioned note, then consider yourself part of the problem. I'm sure the rest of the 4WD will thank you too for not doing your part.

Again THANK YOU to all who attended!!

Talk soon,

[Robin]

Dave - nice write up, thanks!!

Dave makes an excellent point that not a lot of people will write. IMO, something canned might make it easier for a lot of folks to write in. I know, something personal is always better, but those that have something written for them are much more likely to take the time. Another thought would be to get an online petition going. This seemed to work effectively for KY Mountain Crawlers in getting their leased land for the OHV park in Harlan County, KY.

[rblank]

Robin, the only problem with "cookie cutter" or "canned" letters is that some agencies (including the Federal Government) have programs that will filter out letters sent that contain the same text. They also scan in letters received in hard copy form to run through the program. Thus that letter will only count as one opinion.works to our benefit as well as our dismay.

My suggestion is to write certain "key owrds" or short phrases and include them in an example letter. That way people have the right items the program is looking for, but still different enough to pass the filters.