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My latest idea

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My latest idea

Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:55 am

Lets get someone to create a

1) Ma Bell forum

2) Old Florida road forum

3) Coy Hill forum


Three seperate forums, not here, some place on neutral ground, where we can hash out the overuse and coordinate all the 65 wheeling clubs schedules to wheel these places.

What do you think?
whose got server space?
whose level headed enough to be a moderator?
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Postby XJ Maki » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:25 pm

I think it's a great idea, <edit>include the half a dozen other S.NE trails that all the clubs use regularly too</edit>. I would make a suggestion to start out with just NEA clubs....get our own house in order first....

I think it would be good for the NEA to co-ordinate runs at those trails for NEA member clubs much like how the NEA private property runs are co-ordinated. Have the trails directors come in and select dates so that there's no duplication and to minimize overuse by the NEA at least. Similar really to what has already been done by asking all NEA clubs not to cross the water at OFR, that water crossing now looks a ton better than it did several years ago
Last edited by XJ Maki on Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mrfreakinwhite » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:27 pm

What Bic said. I ended up moving and rescheduling A LOT last year (2007) because of this.
Clean our house first.
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:01 pm

XJ Maki wrote:I think it's a great idea, include the big property as well as a few others. I would make a suggestion to start out with just NEA clubs....get our own house in order first....

I think it would be good for the NEA to co-ordinate runs at those trails for NEA member clubs much like how the NEA private property runs are co-ordinated. Have the trails directors come in and select dates so that there's no duplication and to minimize overuse by the NEA at least. Similar really to what has already been done by asking all NEA clubs not to cross the water at OFR, that water crossing now looks a ton better than it did several years ago


Yea, I would rather keep said private properties a bit under the radar until we can assure ourselves the damage that has occured in other very public spots such as the ones listed can be mitigated with a proper agreed upon management plan.

The reason why I suggested "not here" is because outsiders will feel a bit uneasy coming "under our umbrella" to post their thoughts. If we can put up a message board in the most neutral of territories that would be great.
Last edited by Paul on Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:05 pm

Lets use Berkshire 4 Wheelers forum.

that place is as dead as a doornail. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby tammylynn » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:13 pm

What about NEOW?
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Postby JayZR2 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:33 pm

A simple forum like this can be set up for 1 years with a domain name for under $100. Closer to $80 depending how long you register the domain name for.
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:10 pm

Actually,

we could use new england 4 wheelers forum.....you want to talk about dead!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby JayZR2 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:31 pm

depending on who new engalnd hosts with , you can prob do a subdomain for nothing
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:34 pm

I'm PMing with mike chaplin(sp) aka sidriptide over at Berkshire 4W to use his place. He needs traffic and the trails are on his home turf. :paul:

We'll see if I can coax him into it.

My idea is to invite every organization we know to discuss the overuse of these properties.
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Postby rblank » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:42 pm

Gee, wouldn't the responsible use of land and the education of doing it be the whole reason for the NEA? Image
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:58 pm

Sometimes I lose the forest through the trees roger.
todays an epiphany for me. Educate the Locust.
Mikes gonna do it tonight. :wink: sucker.
Hey mike, you reading this? add an OFR section too.
thanx bud.

Sometimes we spend so much time b!tching, whining, complaining, spouting from our high horse, that we lose sight of what we are supposed to be doing. Now, what was I doing again?

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Postby mikesmaxx » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:00 pm

rblank wrote:Gee, wouldn't the responsible use of land and the education of doing it be the whole reason for the NEA? Image


Why throw commonsense into the mix around here? :roll:
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Postby Scott Hatch » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 pm

:shock: Perhaps this should have been discussed further before making a decision

I would suggest a completely neutral location, but looks like its too late
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Postby Scott Hatch » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:04 pm

As I was suggesting about Coy's Hill we should create a couple of "Friend's of" coalitions to work on these publically used locations. I think the discussion areas should be done in a neutral location like NEOW or some other public forum that does not have an affiliation
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Postby rblank » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:00 pm

I have a bit of a different take on things.

While the concept of what's being discussed is a good one, I think the execution needs a differnet approach. All of the volunteers and people in land use are spread to thin right now. There's too many things going on a too many different levels and the result is people doing there own little things. Equals status quo or slow, sporadic progress.

Imagine if you will (que Twilight Zone theme) the concept of bringing ALL the people interested in land use across ALL the different clubs, associations, forums, colitions, etc....whatever. Imagine them ALL on the same page, making a COORDINATED effort in the battles we faced. Each person leaning on the expertise of others, but responsible for a certain piece of the puzzle.

Cliff notes anology for those getting bored:
-bunch of little pebbles into a pond = little ripples, disappate quickly
-BIG boulder into pond = huge ripple effect, lasting impression w/ aftershocks.


I've thought about this a great length recently. Not only as a result of other people (Mike Belben for example) but from my own experiences. I tried to take on too much at one, got frustrated, wound up burnt out. The sport NEEDS to get together on the same page. There needs to be a CONCENTRATED effort and stance about our issues. THEN people (i.e. governmental agiences, regardless of the level.) will take notice and know we mean business. There's too much division in the sport, and we've created most of it ourselves. Jeepers vs Full sizers, Northern New England vs. Southern New England, my club vs. your club, NEA vs East Coast. WE'RE as much to blame for killing our sport as the Greenies. Politics within our own sport is going to continue to bring us down.

Cliff notes anology #2:
Say your trying to build a building.
- No plans, General Contractor, or end goal = Subs doing whatever they want, no idea what you're going to get.
- Good solid foundation with a plan, someone coordinating the effort, hard, taingable goals = Beautiful award winning building.


someone, something, somehow we all HAVE to get on the same page.


Disclaimer: views expressed herein are my own, and are usually outside the box and somewhat radical. Any use, transmission, rebroadcast or reproduction of this post, is illegal with out the express, written consent of Major Leage baseball. Have a nice day.
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Postby jsongy » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:37 pm

rblank wrote:I have a bit of a different take on things.

While the concept of what's being discussed is a good one, I think the execution needs a differnet approach. All of the volunteers and people in land use are spread to thin right now. There's too many things going on a too many different levels and the result is people doing there own little things. Equals status quo or slow, sporadic progress.

Imagine if you will (que Twilight Zone theme) the concept of bringing ALL the people interested in land use across ALL the different clubs, associations, forums, colitions, etc....whatever. Imagine them ALL on the same page, making a COORDINATED effort in the battles we faced. Each person leaning on the expertise of others, but responsible for a certain piece of the puzzle.

Cliff notes anology for those getting bored:
-bunch of little pebbles into a pond = little ripples, disappate quickly
-BIG boulder into pond = huge ripple effect, lasting impression w/ aftershocks.


I've thought about this a great length recently. Not only as a result of other people (Mike Belben for example) but from my own experiences. I tried to take on too much at one, got frustrated, wound up burnt out. The sport NEEDS to get together on the same page. There needs to be a CONCENTRATED effort and stance about our issues. THEN people (i.e. governmental agiences, regardless of the level.) will take notice and know we mean business. There's too much division in the sport, and we've created most of it ourselves. Jeepers vs Full sizers, Northern New England vs. Southern New England, my club vs. your club, NEA vs East Coast. WE'RE as much to blame for killing our sport as the Greenies. Politics within our own sport is going to continue to bring us down.

Cliff notes anology #2:
Say your trying to build a building.
- No plans, General Contractor, or end goal = Subs doing whatever they want, no idea what you're going to get.
- Good solid foundation with a plan, someone coordinating the effort, hard, taingable goals = Beautiful award winning building.


someone, something, somehow we all HAVE to get on the same page.


Disclaimer: views expressed herein are my own, and are usually outside the box and somewhat radical. Any use, transmission, rebroadcast or reproduction of this post, is illegal with out the express, written consent of Major Leage baseball. Have a nice day.


Nicely written.
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Postby JayZR2 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:41 pm

I would hardly call NEOW "neutral".
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Postby Paul » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:02 pm

:lol:

Roger I love you.


you're just like me, half the time your cracked and everyone wants to strangle you.....and the other half of the time you make such perfect sense! :hello:
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Postby Treasurer » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:34 pm

Wait a sweatervest that makes asense.
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Postby mike_belben » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:16 am

im for getting whatever old NEA vs EC4WDA hatchets buried. i dont know about the shit from ten years ago, and i dont need to. i dont want to be slowed down by the BS or told who my friends are. i want to be able to call dave brill, mike chapline, scott hatch or paul regish and know we are all in the same war, as allies.

does yesterdays shit make a difference today? absolutely, it makes us all less effective at lobbying the enemy (state gov't) for what we all share a deep desire for. public wheeling appropriations. does it serve any other purpose?

no.


if all wheelers combined are only "4-6%" of parks user's as the DCR claims (who on earth knows how you can determine it) and all land use guys find out quick that a tiny fraction will actually participate.. well guess how many wheelers you need to reach out to in order to make the DCR take notice? 3.79 billion. NEA needs EC4 like EC4 needs NEA.

me and paul will hold hands and you guys can join our big gay bandwagon when you're ready.

:gaywave:
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:23 am

I think its safe to say that we currently have a person that has stepped up and taken charge of this issue and this area; Joe O. This is something he wants to do, is local to the issue, and is already leading the coordination of rectifying the situation.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:26 am

mike_belben wrote:im for getting whatever old NEA vs EC4WDA hatchets buried. i dont know about the poop from ten years ago, and i dont need to. i dont want to be slowed down by the BS or told who my friends are. i want to be able to call dave brill, mike chapline, scott hatch or paul regish and know we are all in the same war, as allies.

does yesterdays poop make a difference today? absolutely, it makes us all less effective at lobbying the enemy (state gov't) for what we all share a deep desire for. public wheeling appropriations. does it serve any other purpose?

no.


if all wheelers combined are only "4-6%" of parks user's as the DCR claims (who on earth knows how you can determine it) and all land use guys find out quick that a tiny fraction will actually participate.. well guess how many wheelers you need to reach out to in order to make the DCR take notice? 3.79 billion. NEA needs EC4 like EC4 needs NEA.

me and paul will hold hands and you guys can join our big gay bandwagon when you're ready.

:gaywave:


I don't have any issues with EC4WDA, the only thing I am suggesting is the creation of a nuetral entity that will include all interested parties.

I am also supporting Joe Ostrenga to take charge of this situation.
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Postby mike_belben » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:37 am

im not pointing any fingers at anyone, i dont even know the details beyond "theres still some bad blood here and there" type mentionings. my intention is just to make a public, neutral reminder that we are on the same team, for anyone still sore about whatever may or may not have gone on in the past.

and no, id rather it doesnt get rehashed here.
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:03 am

Leave the past where it belongs :up:

I am suggesting the creation of a neutral entity that will include all interested parties.

I am also supporting Joe Ostrenga to take charge of this situation.
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Postby nuthinfancy » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:37 am

If you are setting up a new board, you might want to try this one: http://www.invisionpower.com/community/board/index.html
It allows you to "subscribe" to the whole board, which will send you new topics and replys via email.
Trying to monitor all the boards out there is a full time job. Its much easier having everything go to one spot. I just wish there was one that allowed you to reply by email. I think you need a "listServer" for that
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:57 am

Joe in charge of Coy Hill? Or Joe in charge of the whole Massachusetts ball of wax?? :hello:

Let get him!!!! Joe for Mass Land Use Chairperson!!! :hello:

8) 8)
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:28 am

Hmm, well, I think Mikes place is neutral enough. I don't particularly care that he is with EC and not the NEA, and no-one else caring would be a good start to the venture I think. It's up to him/you guys.

I wont rehash either but I will offer some insight for us to chew on: We see this problem nation wide as well (I think). There's a preverbial alphabet soup of off-road organizations out there. Everyone goes their own way and does their own thing.

Why do we have SO many clubs? take a look back at each club that was formed over the past 5-7 years, every single one of them was formed because one group of leaders in the club didn't see eye-to-eye with the other group of leaders. Again, cooks/pot analogy. How do we get all these head-strong cooks/leaders that all want to do it their own way....to work together in the same kitchen??? I'm all ears. I'd love to do it.

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Postby Treasurer » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:55 am

For you new wheelers. There was a time before the NEa4WDC existed that two different clubs would never be in the same room together. Now we sit next to each other, share land and have a big off-road event with members from all the clubs attending. I will say we still have to get more friendly with others.
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Postby jsongy » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:01 am

Ya get em all in one room at the same time and last man standing wins! :lol:

But seriosly having a COORDINATED M&G of club presidents could possibly resolve past issues.
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Postby Zaedock » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:10 am

Paul wrote:Joe in charge of Coy Hill? Or Joe in charge of the whole Massachusetts ball of wax?? :hello:

Let get him!!!! Joe for Mass Land Use Chairperson!!! :hello:

8) 8)


Jeebus! :shock: Get Me?!?!?!?!!?!

I've been extremely busy at work and haven't had a chance to chime in, but WOW!, Mass Land use person...an "official" title...only if Paul gets me coffee (two creams and two sugars, please.). Have to think about that one.

Getting back to Coy, I'll be able to elaborate tonight after trick or treating, (we have an inspection going on at work right now so I'm running around like crazy) but to comment quick : I think a forum for ALL aspects of our sport (in the North East) would be great. The word about Coy did get out quick through word of mouth, but a centralized "Command Center" on land use would be nice. This would be a great topic to add to Sat's meeting.

Anyway, gotta go...

Talk soon,
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:16 am

Actually what I was proposing was a coalition of of all interested parties, it has worked with great success here in out west. Friends of the Rubicon is one example of a coalition created from all interested parties.

Friends of Coy Hill

I would like to appoint Joe O as the leader of this group as he has already had the most interaction with all intrerested parties, he is local to the issue, and obviously this is an issue he cares about.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:26 am

Damn. :?

I thought we suckered in a leader to our group. :wink:
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Postby Scott Hatch » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:44 am

baby steps Paul. I am more interested in a project manager that will handle this situation.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:55 am

Man did you miss a good sh!t-stir by yours truly over at NTC.
They erased most.
Tough crowd. The admins are good guys, very fair. Very good people, tough crowd. :paul:
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:56 am

I found out that people don't like to get "called out" for over-use.
Both here...and there.
They get defensive.
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Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:09 pm

I guess I am confused...I know what else is new right? Why couldn't we just create a section for this on our forum? I don't know why people would feel scared about coming here more than they would any other forum they aren't currently on? If the main reason is the whole NEA EC thing...seriously get over it and move on. Half of us don't even know why that issue even started!

Roger said it somewhere...isn't this the job of the Northeast Association? If we can't host a forum for the proposed groups to chat about responsible use of land and trail organization than what are we here for? Why would we feel it necessary to go to any other forum? What purpose do we serve if we can't even moderate something like this on our own home base?

The reason I suggested NEOW is because it receives a lot of traffic of both legal and illegal wheelers. It is a great platform for public discussion. But again...I think we should do this here.

Maybe this is irrelevant if the decision has in fact been put into motion on another forum.
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Postby rawlus » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:59 pm

if people are still interesting in NEOW serving as the mediator/neutral party here i'm willing to offer it up to see if it will work... without question NEOW will reach more wheelers of all types - renegade and organized, than any other new england board in existence and certainly more than any special purpose board created solely for these types of discussions....
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Postby rblank » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:25 pm

Scott Hatch wrote:Actually what I was proposing was a coalition of of all interested parties, it has worked with great success here in out west. Friends of the Rubicon is one example of a coalition created from all interested parties.

Friends of Coy Hill

I would like to appoint Joe O as the leader of this group as he has already had the most interaction with all intrerested parties, he is local to the issue, and obviously this is an issue he cares about.


Scott, I understand what your saying about this, and it would address this one issue (Coy Hill) at this moment.

What I'm suggesting is that we need to think beyond this one issue and get going on the BIG PICTURE. I think starting another coalition would do nothing more than spread the already overactive volunteers even more.

I've said it when I first started here, and Paul brought it up again recently. We need to be PROACTIVE, not REACTIVE.
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Postby rblank » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:27 pm

Paul wrote:Why do we have SO many clubs? take a look back at each club that was formed over the past 5-7 years, every single one of them was formed because one group of leaders in the club didn't see eye-to-eye with the other group of leaders. Again, cooks/pot analogy. How do we get all these head-strong cooks/leaders that all want to do it their own way....to work together in the same kitchen??? I'm all ears. I'd love to do it.
:paul:


I agree with you 110%, and I'd love to hear a solution as well. I tihnk people spreading too thin is part of the crux of the problem. We just had two new Jeep clubs form in RI, TWO!! IN RI!! I mean it's not that big of a freakin' state! How many "Jeep only" clubs do we really need?!?! What does one club offer you that the other doesn't? More Jeeps? :roll:


(could you detect some of my sarcasim there? :mrgreen:)
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Re: My latest idea

Postby XJ Maki » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:34 pm

I'm confused.

If the purpose is for clubs to coordinate their run schedules so as to minimize overuse, I don't understand why it would or should be open to the general public. I would think it would be more productive with less obfuscation if it were just the respective clubs trail coordinators, maybe a few selected reps from each club.

Any renegade or so called locust wheelers who happen into such a forum are certainly not going to coordinate their renegade runs and would only use what bits of information they can gain to add to their list of places to trash, am I being overly cynical to think that way?
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:41 pm

I think that is a legitimate concern maki. My vision for the boards was not necessarily to coordinate runs there, in fact that wasn't my intention at all EDIT, oh wait yes it was :lol: , but that could be done. I was thinking more of like a simple brain trust/meeting of the minds place where we could discuss over-use, and what we can do to minimize it, coordinate clean ups, maintenance days etc. there could be a schedule posting thing there.
fwiw, to toot my own horn momentarily, ne4w has not run either place in 3 years, too much aggrevation, etc.

wrt to neow, I like it since I'm a mod there, but again I'm not the most level-headed in there. MY perception of neow is that it is filled with a LOT more nea people than EC people, that's my perception anyways, although it can be considered technically neutral.

It's just an idea.....:paul:
some stick to the wall.......some dont.
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Postby XJ Maki » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:57 pm

I understand that the coordinating of runs was just a part of your idea and perhaps the hashing out of overuse issues was a bigger part. I think bringing the discussion of those areas outside the boundaries of just the NEA or EC4WDA is definitely a positive thing.

I think I latched on to the coordinating run schedules part because it is an easily attainable goal with tangible and immediate results. Like Mike said and as a one time trail coordinator I know how much of a bitch it is to try to set a schedule for your club while trying to avoid bumping into other clubs on the same trail and most clubs are not particularly forthcoming about their schedules or use obscure nicknames for popular trails.
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Re: My latest idea

Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:01 pm

XJ Maki wrote:I'm confused.



I'm glad I'm not alone. :lol:

I was thinking more of like a simple brain trust/meeting of the minds place where we could discuss over-use, and what we can do to minimize it, coordinate clean ups, maintenance days etc. there could be a schedule posting thing there.


And we can't facilitate that here? I don't know why having them go to one forum or the other is going to make any difference? I know you said why but what is to prevent the same thing happening on another forum? You don't think there will be crash and bash posts on NEOW? :shock: lol

And I agree with Roger. We can't get enough people to help with current projects...but maybe this is something that is burning enough of a hole in people that they will get on board.
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Postby rblank » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:15 pm

You're right Tammy, use the momentum from Coy Hill that has everyone (NEA, EC, unaffiliated) on the same page, and roll with it.
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Postby tammylynn » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:24 pm

I am? :shock: I'm NEVER right...EVER....

But I know I'm only right because I agreed with you in the first place. :lol: Kidding...I'm kidding.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:27 pm

I just think you're not going to get the average joe unaffiliated wheeler or everyone from EC if you do it on here or neow. that's just the view from my seat, I may be off. I've been off my game lately.
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Postby rblank » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:35 pm

Paul wrote:I just think you're not going to get the average joe unaffiliated wheeler or everyone from EC if you do it on here or neow. that's just the view from my seat, I may be off. I've been off my game lately.
:paul:


If we continue to carry the same old baggage....no. But like I told you on another forum. We need to "MOVE ON"

Hell if it doesn't really matter, do it on East Coast's forum if you want. There's already enough forums around, creating new one or new coalitions is just going to be something else for people to ignore. Look where have we gotten with the "Save Old Florida Road" coalition type thing.

And we don't want, or even need, EVERY wheeler on board. We need the ACTIVE people on board. It's then THEIR job to spread the word about what the right thing to do is. Maybe we're talking about two differnet things, but I think they go hand in hand.
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Postby rblank » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:39 pm

tammylynn wrote:I am? :shock: I'm NEVER right...EVER....

But I know I'm only right because I agreed with you in the first place. :lol: Kidding...I'm kidding.


I think you under estimate your abilities and knowledge. When you've got a room full of hard-headed, Type A personalities, a person with a level head, and common sense is a valuable asset. What we're doing here isn't rocket science.
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Postby Paul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:57 pm

I need duct tape and a tazer, stat.

for myself....oh, and bring some tequila too.
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